Cliff notes of the 'Portuguese Poker Prodigy' Jose "Girah" Macedo scam - Page 21 - Poker News

3x Range Merger · 08-07-2011, 10:08 PM

Sergei, you joined just to write up this theory? Let's see what will come before making up conspiracy theories.

BTW, unanswered questions:

1. Why Dog didn't want this public?
2. What's Dog's and Jungle's involvement?
3. Did Girah ever win $2m or was all a scam?

tempeh! · 08-07-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tollundman

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...-time-1072236/

Bit of an aside but had a look at that OPs posting history. He goes from using text speak and bad spelling in Jan 2011 to suddenly becoming very articulate in June 2011. I guess dogishead took over posting duty for a while!

Spoiler:

01/31/2011
and who r u??? so many damn leeches in the pkr world pretending to kno this kid. if he does exist, and if he does come out, his life is gonna be hell cuz of ppl like the 1s in this thred, losers. i know this kid personaly and hes a good modest guy and a gr8 player, y dont u ppl leave him alone? fwiw i donno if hes in the pic posted but some of his sn's hav been posted here and thats jus way outta line, imo mods should delete, kid is trying to protect himself. this is invasion of privacy

06/25/2011
ill spare you reading through the whole thing. there has been absolutely 0 evidence of anything shady, jose offered to bet up to 600k that EVERYTHING he said in every single post/interview was true and ofc no one took it. these retards actually think jungleman and haseeb spend their time playing on joses account and posting on joses twoplustwo account and talking to good players on his skype just to create this super elaborate level lol. its pathetic

06/27/2011
please mods delete this damn thread, its just baseless accusation from micro players. THERE IS 0 PROOF JUNGLEMAN OR ANYONE PLAYED ON HIS ACCOUNT, its so random, and they are dragging these guys names through the mud. guys who are stand up high stakes players with no bad stuff on their name. this is ridiculous.

very interesting

PostflopNoob · 08-07-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergeisergei

So the background basically is that Dog Is Head created this whole Poker Prodigy theme over Jose, who in reality is a mediocore midstakes reg. This Portuguese guy exists obviously and plays some poker, but "girah", the highstakes uber pro, is just creation of atleast DIH and maybe some other guys (tho DIHs storytelling skills are just, lets say, too awesome for this to not be his idea)

People would rail/get coaching from Jose(not "girah") and think he is just some regular guy, like he is, making ton of mistakes and being unsure what to do in simple spots. Then in Skype DIH or someone would takeover "girah" role and write all of the highlevel strat conversations. Same goes for the training video he made that was clearly written for him, as even Jose himself was a bit unsure what he was saying. And for 2p2 posts (yes IP's probably track him to Portugal, but have you thought about him copy-pasteing stuff that "someone else" wrote to him)

Jose is just the face of "girah", while in the background there's guys who are using his reputation, his accessability to Euro sites, and him being him to a) gain more money b) getting jungleman to play durrr.

Everything just fell apart when Jose himself went on and scammed people who thought this was the real "girah". What you should realise is that this Jose guy isn't the same person, the guy who you thought would never scam you just because he's got this high-level poker-mind, because, well, he isn't "girah". He's just the face of it.

Possible +1

2DMB2LIV · 08-07-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawcruhteez

Does anyone else find it fishy how few players have quickly risen through the ranks on online poker post-UIGEA, supposedly Girah, Jungleman, JM's best friend UrNotInDanger. Coupled with JM crushing the Durrrr Challenge, and then Girah wanting to take the action soon after?

Not really, what's your point? Games are obviously a million times tougher than they ever were, so very few people can ascend from the bottom all the way to the top of the food chain.

JM's skills are 100% legit and I highly doubt he'd superuse anyone for a few BI's at 10/20.
Account sharing to get action though, that's definitely possible.

As far as Haseeb is concerned, it's already fact that he shared accounts and tried to bury this situation to protect his rep, and I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out he had actually scammed people with Girah.

Percy101 · 08-07-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaarg

haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redtuber

Are you going to post the chat logs of the live sweats?

Do they go something like this:

josemacedo: ok, i want you to shove bluff this river
toocurious: u sure?
Josemacedo: yes, donk will fold.
(toocurious shoves)
(sauron snap calls)

loled.

Oh, and this Jose guy should be in prison. Thief scumbag etc

handbag86 · 08-07-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergeisergei

So the background basically is that Dog Is Head created this whole Poker Prodigy theme over Jose, who in reality is a mediocore midstakes reg. This Portuguese guy exists obviously and plays some poker, but "girah", the highstakes uber pro, is just creation of atleast DIH and maybe some other guys (tho DIHs storytelling skills are just, lets say, too awesome for this to not be his idea)

People would rail/get coaching from Jose(not "girah") and think he is just some regular guy, like he is, making ton of mistakes and being unsure what to do in simple spots. Then in Skype DIH or someone would takeover "girah" role and write all of the highlevel strat conversations. Same goes for the training video he made that was clearly written for him, as even Jose himself was a bit unsure what he was saying. And for 2p2 posts (yes IP's probably track him to Portugal, but have you thought about him copy-pasteing stuff that "someone else" wrote to him)

Jose is just the face of "girah", while in the background there's guys who are using his reputation, his accessability to Euro sites, and him being him to a) gain more money b) getting jungleman to play durrr.

Everything just fell apart when Jose himself went on and scammed people who thought this was the real "girah". What you should realise is that this Jose guy isn't the same person, the guy who you thought would never scam you just because he's got this high-level poker-mind, because, well, he isn't "girah". He's just the face of it.

This is what i was trying to say earlier ITT, so...

+1.

Sromy · 08-07-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergeisergei

So the background basically is that Dog Is Head created this whole Poker Prodigy theme over Jose, who in reality is a mediocore midstakes reg. This Portuguese guy exists obviously and plays some poker, but "girah", the highstakes uber pro, is just creation of atleast DIH and maybe some other guys (tho DIHs storytelling skills are just, lets say, too awesome for this to not be his idea)

People would rail/get coaching from Jose(not "girah") and think he is just some regular guy, like he is, making ton of mistakes and being unsure what to do in simple spots. Then in Skype DIH or someone would takeover "girah" role and write all of the highlevel strat conversations. Same goes for the training video he made that was clearly written for him, as even Jose himself was a bit unsure what he was saying. And for 2p2 posts (yes IP's probably track him to Portugal, but have you thought about him copy-pasteing stuff that "someone else" wrote to him)

Jose is just the face of "girah", while in the background there's guys who are using his reputation, his accessability to Euro sites, and him being him to a) gain more money b) getting jungleman to play durrr.

Everything just fell apart when Jose himself went on and scammed people who thought this was the real "girah". What you should realise is that this Jose guy isn't the same person, the guy who you thought would never scam you just because he's got this high-level poker-mind, because, well, he isn't "girah". He's just the face of it.

This is exactly what I believe the situation is too

daxile · 08-07-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergeisergei

So the background basically is that Dog Is Head created this whole Poker Prodigy theme over Jose, who in reality is a mediocore midstakes reg. This Portuguese guy exists obviously and plays some poker, but "girah", the highstakes uber pro, is just creation of atleast DIH and maybe some other guys (tho DIHs storytelling skills are just, lets say, too awesome for this to not be his idea)

People would rail/get coaching from Jose(not "girah") and think he is just some regular guy, like he is, making ton of mistakes and being unsure what to do in simple spots. Then in Skype DIH or someone would takeover "girah" role and write all of the highlevel strat conversations. Same goes for the training video he made that was clearly written for him, as even Jose himself was a bit unsure what he was saying. And for 2p2 posts (yes IP's probably track him to Portugal, but have you thought about him copy-pasteing stuff that "someone else" wrote to him)

Jose is just the face of "girah", while in the background there's guys who are using his reputation, his accessability to Euro sites, and him being him to a) gain more money b) getting jungleman to play durrr.

Everything just fell apart when Jose himself went on and scammed people who thought this was the real "girah". What you should realise is that this Jose guy isn't the same person, the guy who you thought would never scam you just because he's got this high-level poker-mind, because, well, he isn't "girah". He's just the face of it.

+1
great summation of what happened based on the facts given to us.

THUNDER CLAP · 08-07-2011, 10:17 PM

I guess it's true that real monsters are scared of the light. Hopefully soon we get clarity on the true underbelly of this situation at hand. As everyone knows this casts a bad image on not only poker player but in the bad that humanity is capable of.

FlatTard · 08-07-2011, 10:19 PM

Did DIH and Jungle have funds of Girahs (house deposit? and wtf they were buying a house together that required a deposit of $30K+ each??) that they were going to use to repay the money Girah scammed?

Or did DIH just offer to repay the $30K out of his own pocket?

What sergeisergeisergei said is exactly what i was rambling towards. yea that +1

therealwinner · 08-07-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x Range Merger

Sergei, you joined just to write up this theory? Let's see what will come before making up conspiracy theories.

BTW, unanswered questions:

1. Why Dog didn't want this public?
2. What's Dog's and Jungle's involvement?
3. Did Girah ever win $2m or was all a scam?

come on dude please just stop with the naivety 2. is clearly a scam he couldnt even beat 1k nl letalone 20knl
he is a con man that has learnt some poker theory to help his con
not a pokerplayer than learnt how to scam people

sergeisergei · 08-07-2011, 10:22 PM

Oh save me for not registering myself an account earlier, I've been too busy lurking through my friends one while I've never really had anything useful to say under my own name. Also, would be interesting to know who was used to get him the Lockpoker sponsorship-deal, yes?

cro0sh · 08-07-2011, 10:22 PM

that is a great theory by serg, one that I didn't really think of.

whatsit · 08-07-2011, 10:22 PM

Why did Jose pick an Indian/Pakistani word "Girah" as his nickname? He said in one of his interviews that he made up Girah and it had some private meaning.

Haseeb, did you give Jose his nickname Girah?

Or is Haseeb being Indian and Girah being an Indian word just a coincidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girah -- a unit of measurement that "...became obsolete"

"Classic Drama Girah" (Pakistani)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpF-2UIIQUI#at=2m23s

**TooCuriousso1** · 08-07-2011, 10:23 PM

Given what's been posted thus far, I think it's important to post everything relevant now.

Here are the relevant logs I have from the skype group with DOG in it. There might be more relevant skype convos with individuals but this is what I have from the group chat. I just wanted to point out that DOG never took any kind of responsibility (to my memory/knowledge) for the 30k COMPENSATION Jose expressed he was going to give us. Please note that this was a group. And not everyone shared the same opinions on exactly what should be posted and when.

It was also unknown to DOG at some point that Jose could pay us back with Merge $.

[8/5/2011 4:28:25 PM] M Moss: I sent my details to Jose earlier today. Can't access my bank details from my phone.
[8/5/2011 4:28:25 PM] DOG: but if it comes out publicly there is no way we can be around him
[8/5/2011 4:28:31 PM] ivien: he said you guys owe him money
[8/5/2011 4:28:33 PM] ivien: take the deposit out of that
[8/5/2011 4:28:35 PM] ivien: ?
[8/5/2011 4:28:39 PM] DOG: yeah that's what we're doing
[8/5/2011 4:29:01 PM] M Moss: Dog. I think we are close to 100% gonna go public.
[8/5/2011 4:29:03 PM] DOG: anyway, there's no point in going on about it
[8/5/2011 4:29:11 PM] DOG: ok, understood
[8/5/2011 4:29:44 PM] DOG: i guess the only thing i ask is that you respect jungle and my confidentiality within this group and leave our names out of it
[8/5/2011 4:29:58 PM] M Moss: Im sorry that that's inconvenient but tbh I'm fairly surprised that you think there's a choice in the matter..
[8/5/2011 4:30:11 PM] M Moss: Yeah sure
[8/5/2011 4:30:14 PM] DOG: no of course, we weren't expecting otherwise, but obviously we had to ask
[8/5/2011 4:30:26 PM] ivien: On 11-08-06, at 1:30 AM, M Moss wrote:
> Im sorry that that's inconvenient but tbh I'm fairly surprised that you think there's a choice in the matter..
yeah im shocked. hes a scumbag but you only care if others know hes a scumbag?
[8/5/2011 4:30:27 PM] M Moss: You guys havent done anything out of line imo.
[8/5/2011 4:30:51 PM] DOG: no, we know he's a scumbag. we are double checking all of our transactions with him and ****
[8/5/2011 4:31:17 PM] ivien: just seems like you would still live with him and coach him if we didnt air this
[8/5/2011 4:31:20 PM] DOG: it's a long story, but yeah, there's just no way we can be associated with him at all once this comes out
[8/5/2011 4:31:40 PM] DOG: i don't want to go into details, but yeah
[8/5/2011 4:31:49 PM] Jay: Dog
[8/5/2011 4:32:12 PM] Jay: I think if you're asking to be left out of this, you should at least provide some details.
[8/5/2011 4:32:21 PM] Jay: They may or may not be relevant in the decision making process.
[8/5/2011 4:32:29 PM] DOG: i'm sorry?
[8/5/2011 4:32:37 PM] DOG: what are you referring to
[8/5/2011 4:32:59 PM] Henrik: sorry guys just got back
[8/5/2011 4:33:04 PM] Henrik: whats going on haseeb?
[8/5/2011 4:33:07 PM] Henrik: just got a message from daniel
[8/5/2011 4:33:10 PM] Nick Frame: lol
[8/5/2011 4:33:13 PM] Nick Frame: read ^
[8/5/2011 4:33:18 PM] Nick Frame:

[8/5/2011 4:33:26 PM] DOG: uh, cliffs: we're going to try to send all of the money to one account for simplicity
[8/5/2011 4:33:30 PM] Henrik: ok sure
[8/5/2011 4:33:32 PM] Henrik: is matt here?
[8/5/2011 4:33:36 PM] ivien: yes but not oscar
[8/5/2011 4:33:39 PM] DOG: and second i'm asking if when you go public you can leave jungle and my names out completely
[8/5/2011 4:33:42 PM] M Moss: I'm on my phone
[8/5/2011 4:33:47 PM] DOG: because if you do we will get smeared by nvg as well just for being near it
[8/5/2011 4:34:08 PM] Nick Frame: i dont really see why we need to mention u guys
[8/5/2011 4:34:19 PM] Henrik: i was planning on writing
[8/5/2011 4:34:21 PM] M Moss: Yeah no reason at all
[8/5/2011 4:35:03 PM] Henrik: 'Let me start off by saying that DogIsHead, nor Jungleman, has been involved in this case in any way except being helpful to make Jose come clean about his actions etc etc'
[8/5/2011 4:35:03 PM] DOG: this story can obviously be told without us, but we just wanted to ask to be sure
[8/5/2011 4:35:13 PM] DOG: because it will hurt both of us substantially
[8/5/2011 4:35:19 PM] Henrik: does that seem fine?
[8/5/2011 4:35:25 PM] DOG: yeah, include sauce in that too btw
[8/5/2011 4:35:27 PM] Henrik: yeah obv
[8/5/2011 4:35:29 PM] Henrik: ill include sauce
[8/5/2011 4:35:31 PM] Henrik: ive spoken to sauce alot
[8/5/2011 4:35:36 PM] DOG: because he is for some reason attached to jose too
[8/5/2011 4:35:46 PM] Henrik: yeah i was going to mention sauce as well
[8/5/2011 4:36:38 PM] DOG: if you can just say "Jungleman, Dogishead, Sauce, and others" etc so we're not singled out, but yes, that would be good
[8/5/2011 4:36:44 PM] Henrik: ok
[8/5/2011 4:36:55 PM] DOG: anyway, we're goin to be going to bed because it's very late here in gibraltar and we have an early morning
[8/5/2011 4:36:59 PM] M Moss: Wait so dog were you asking us not to include you in a negative light? Why would we do that??
[8/5/2011 4:37:08 PM] DOG: no, not in a negative light. i mean at all
[8/5/2011 4:37:27 PM] DOG: if nvg hears my name or jungle's name near jose they will go crazy
[8/5/2011 4:37:30 PM] DOG: after this comes out
[8/5/2011 4:37:36 PM] DOG: that's just the way it is
[8/5/2011 4:37:55 PM] Henrik: yea we're aware
[8/5/2011 4:37:58 PM] DOG: but i guess now once and for all they'll know jose is a real person haha
[8/5/2011 4:38:05 PM] DOG: :x
[8/5/2011 4:38:06 PM] Nick Frame: were going to get ripped too fwiw.
[8/5/2011 4:38:11 PM] DOG: possibly
[8/5/2011 4:38:16 PM] DOG: but i wouldn't worry about that, you guys are the victims
[8/5/2011 4:38:18 PM] DOG: so you'll be ok
[8/5/2011 4:38:32 PM] DOG: if it comes out that jungle or i are PAYING YOU GUYS OUT then we will get destroyed
[8/5/2011 4:38:49 PM] DOG: obviously we're willing to, but it looks really bad if you understand what i'ms aying matt
[8/5/2011 4:39:17 PM] DOG: anyway i hope that's all clear
[8/5/2011 4:39:18 PM] M Moss: Yeah I do, ofc, understand. We'll keep it our dirty little secret
[8/5/2011 4:39:23 PM] Henrik: lol
[8/5/2011 4:39:25 PM] DOG: haha
[8/5/2011 4:39:27 PM] DOG: yeah yeah
[8/5/2011 4:39:30 PM] Henrik: :x
[8/5/2011 4:40:16 PM] DOG: we need to sleep as we have an early morning, but in the morning i hope henrik you can send me an e-mail with bank acct details and the total amt
[8/5/2011 4:40:16 PM] DOG: for all players
[8/5/2011 4:40:17 PM] Henrik: have you spoken to jose after my discussion with him dog?
[8/5/2011 4:40:21 PM] DOG: and you guys can divvy it up as appropriate
[8/5/2011 4:40:26 PM] DOG: and we will try to send in a wire tomorrow
[8/5/2011 4:40:36 PM] DOG: briefly yeah, i spoke to him on the phone while here
[8/5/2011 4:40:43 PM] Henrik: what'd he say?
[8/5/2011 4:40:44 PM] DOG: but didn't have much time
[8/5/2011 4:40:49 PM] DOG: just imed him but he was offline
[8/5/2011 4:41:08 PM] DOG: not much, just said that he wanted me to help pay yoyu guys out
[8/5/2011 4:41:09 PM] Nick Frame: really want to know his motive. but we wont keep u
[8/5/2011 4:41:20 PM] DOG: honestly... i don't know.
[8/5/2011 4:41:37 PM] DOG: me and jungle have been talking about it constantly
[8/5/2011 4:41:42 PM] DOG: it's kinda mindboggling
[8/5/2011 4:41:46 PM] Henrik: it is
[8/5/2011 4:41:57 PM] DOG: it's at once absurd, disgusting, and fascinating at the same time
[8/5/2011 4:42:02 PM] DOG: why the **** he did this
[8/5/2011 4:42:07 PM] M Moss: Think if you do feel like the older brotherly figure you portray then he could prob do with your help. Kid does seem genuinely very upset.
[8/5/2011 4:42:32 PM] M Moss: And we're gonna do the one thing he's desperately begging us not to
[8/5/2011 4:42:32 PM] DOG: yeah, i really wish that i could help him out because he is in for a rough time in the next few months
[8/5/2011 4:42:39 PM] M Moss: Which is going public
[8/5/2011 4:42:44 PM] DOG: he's a piece of **** for doing this no doubt, but that doesn't mean i don't ccare about him
[8/5/2011 4:43:10 PM] DOG: but he's going to have to be on his own for this, that's sorta where he put himself
[8/5/2011 4:43:30 PM] Henrik: yeah sucks for him but he made the decision to do this on his own
[8/5/2011 4:43:36 PM] Henrik: for no specific reason
[8/5/2011 4:43:42 PM] M Moss: Which kind of leaves me with the question.. Why were you fine to go live with him if we didn't go public?
[8/5/2011 4:44:39 PM] DOG: it's sorta hard to explain, but i think jose respects/fears me too much to pull any **** with me. and i felt like if i was around him i could be a very positive influence and help him to get his head on straight? maybe that's just my big brother complex talking
[8/5/2011 4:45:20 PM] DOG: i dunno, it's a retarded thing to do regardless
[8/5/2011 4:45:22 PM] DOG: haha
[8/5/2011 4:45:28 PM] Henrik: ben seemed very angry fwiw
[8/5/2011 4:45:42 PM] Henrik: not sure if you've spoken with him
[8/5/2011 4:45:52 PM] DOG: i have not
[8/5/2011 4:46:01 PM] Nick Frame: and fwiw he also talked to sauce about sauron as well
[8/5/2011 4:46:06 PM] DOG: yeah, sauce liked the kid a lot too
[8/5/2011 4:46:10 PM] DOG: all that ****... i don't even know where to start
[8/5/2011 4:46:17 PM] M Moss: Sounds within a level of reason.. Was odd how non-angry you seemed, though I'm not a very angry person by nature and dont think I'm as angry as half, despite being the main victim
[8/5/2011 4:46:19 PM] DOG: anyway, we could talk about this all night but we really do need to sleep haha
[8/5/2011 4:46:21 PM] Henrik: okay
[8/5/2011 4:46:25 PM] DOG: thanks for being straight with us
[8/5/2011 4:46:27 PM] Henrik: haseeb
[8/5/2011 4:46:30 PM] DOG: and we'll try to get you guys paid out asap
[8/5/2011 4:46:42 PM] Henrik: i think if you're just going to send it to one account then matt's preferable
[8/5/2011 4:46:47 PM] Henrik: which is the one i sent you on email already
[8/5/2011 4:46:48 PM] DOG: sorry, iv'e just been flying around and trying to deal with this for the last 24 hours so i'm exhausted
[8/5/2011 4:46:48 PM] M Moss: Ty for your help haseeb. Gn
[8/5/2011 4:46:53 PM] Nick Frame: thanks, ttyl Haseeb
[8/5/2011 4:46:58 PM] ivien: peace
[8/5/2011 4:47:04 PM] DOG: alright, good luck you guys
[8/5/2011 4:47:08 PM] DOG: jungle says bye too
[8/5/2011 4:47:08 PM] Henrik: ttyl
[8/6/2011 6:42:16 PM] DOG: hey you guys, i was just woken up
[8/6/2011 6:42:37 PM] Nick Frame: hey
[8/6/2011 6:42:38 PM] DOG: as i understand, this is going public in an hour or so
[8/6/2011 6:42:41 PM] DOG: who's the person making the thread
[8/6/2011 6:42:53 PM] Nick Frame: moss afaik
[8/6/2011 6:43:06 PM] Nick Frame: why?
[8/6/2011 6:43:37 PM] DOG: jose tells me it's henrik
[8/6/2011 6:43:58 PM] DOG: is it moss or henrik
[8/6/2011 6:43:59 PM] Nick Frame: idk i thot it was moss, moss wrote it
[8/6/2011 6:44:05 PM] DOG: ic
[8/6/2011 6:44:14 PM] Nick Frame: i just assumed it was moss but maybe its henrik
[8/6/2011 6:44:27 PM] Nick Frame: am i missing something?
[8/6/2011 6:44:34 PM] DOG: no idea
[8/6/2011 6:44:38 PM] DOG: i msged both
[8/6/2011 6:44:49 PM] DOG: thanks
[8/6/2011 6:46:43 PM] Nick Frame: afaik henrik will be back soon
[8/6/2011 6:46:45 PM] Nick Frame: and moss is around
[8/6/2011 6:46:55 PM] Nick Frame: afk but around i guess
[8/6/2011 6:47:01 PM] DOG: i see
[8/6/2011 6:48:23 PM] M Moss: yeah it's me
[8/6/2011 7:19:32 PM] DOG: who here is online atm? matt has informed me that the group decision has changed regarding divulging all of the details i gave about our involvement in helping you guys get paid
[8/6/2011 7:21:01 PM] DOG: are any of you guys online right now?
[8/6/2011 7:21:46 PM] Nick Frame: yeah im here
[8/6/2011 7:22:26 PM] DOG: i've been speaking to matt about you guys publicly stating all of the details and involvement that jungle and i have had in helping you guys get paid back
[8/6/2011 7:23:07 PM] Nick Frame: were stating all the details
[8/6/2011 7:23:11 PM] DOG: the original things that i communicated to you guys i was very explicit that i was saying in confidence and wasn't to leave this group unless divulged, and jungle and i have been doing everything we can to try to help you guys out
[8/6/2011 7:23:15 PM] Nick Frame: were not*
[8/6/2011 7:23:47 PM] DOG: henrik originally assured me that it was only goign to be mentioned that me, sauce, and jungle were "nothing but helpful in uncovering and resolving this situation"
[8/6/2011 7:23:59 PM] DOG: but that nothing we told you in confidence or that could hurt us publicly would be written
[8/6/2011 7:24:33 PM] DOG: but despite that matt told me, you guys are going to write a lot more than that now, including that we are responsible for paying you guys back
[8/6/2011 7:25:28 PM] Nick Frame: well that was the only thing?
[8/6/2011 7:25:33 PM] Nick Frame: listen tho
[8/6/2011 7:25:39 PM] Nick Frame: i havent really cared either way
[8/6/2011 7:25:46 PM] Nick Frame: so im not the best person to talk to
[8/6/2011 7:25:56 PM] DOG: right, right
[8/6/2011 7:26:59 PM] Nick Frame: [Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:23 PM] DOG:

<<< "nothing but helpful in uncovering and resolving this situation"
[8/6/2011 7:27:09 PM] Nick Frame: so this is what u want mentioned about u?
[8/6/2011 7:27:14 PM] DOG: [Friday, August 05, 2011 7:36 PM] Henrik:

<<< 'Let me start off by saying that DogIsHead, nor Jungleman, has been involved in this case in any way except being helpful to make Jose come clean about his actions etc etc'
[8/6/2011 7:27:24 PM] DOG: henrik promised me he'd write that yesterday
[8/6/2011 7:27:27 PM] DOG: and that was it regarding our names
[8/6/2011 7:27:31 PM] DOG: oh also including sauce in that*
[8/6/2011 7:27:41 PM] DOG: i don't know if you remember
[8/6/2011 7:27:49 PM] M Moss: yeah looked at it now
[8/6/2011 7:28:37 PM] M Moss: again.. i have no reason to include you in this, it's jay/ivien/wouter who's never online who are most worth talking to
[8/6/2011 7:28:56 PM] DOG: well i know ivien was present during that conversation...
[8/6/2011 7:29:07 PM] DOG: as for jay and wouter i haven't really spoken to at any length throughout this time
[8/6/2011 7:29:27 PM] DOG: but if you guys are going to post this in an hour, then there's not much option for us man
[8/6/2011 7:30:33 PM] DOG: i don't know if you guys are reading my msgs because my internet here is really shaky, can you guys read this atm? :x
[8/6/2011 7:30:47 PM] Nick Frame: yes
[8/6/2011 7:30:53 PM] DOG: ok
[8/6/2011 7:31:37 PM] DOG: can i ask your guys' thoughts?
[8/6/2011 7:31:47 PM] Nick Frame: i personally dont like the feeling i have about this
[8/6/2011 7:32:04 PM] DOG: haha well that's understandable
[8/6/2011 7:32:21 PM] Nick Frame: it should be 1.) we'll pay u back ......2.) lets discuss internally what is said
[8/6/2011 7:32:46 PM] Nick Frame: i just feel like were being told "dont post this and then u'll be paid back, cool?"
[8/6/2011 7:32:56 PM] DOG: no, nick. trust me, we will pay you guys back either way
[8/6/2011 7:33:11 PM] DOG: like i said, as long as jose is alive and well, we will make sure you guys get paid
[8/6/2011 7:33:17 PM] DOG: i promised that from the start
[8/6/2011 7:33:24 PM] M Moss: why did you say:[03:02:11] DOG: there is NO way we can agree to bank transfer you guys money
[03:02:17] DOG: if you are going to put our names in a public statement about all of this
[8/6/2011 7:33:33 PM] DOG: ok, what i meant by that is
[8/6/2011 7:33:37 PM] DOG: IF by jose transfering you money on lock
[8/6/2011 7:33:50 PM] DOG: the story is no longer that jungle is xfering you money through a bank wire
[8/6/2011 7:33:59 PM] DOG: then obviously that would take our names out of the story, do you understand what i'm saying?
[8/6/2011 7:34:06 PM] M Moss: you have to underrstand how i can perceive that as blackmail/at the least a bribe though
[8/6/2011 7:34:10 PM] DOG: what i'm saying isn't we're not going to pay you
[8/6/2011 7:34:12 PM] DOG: argh, my bad
[8/6/2011 7:34:17 PM] DOG: i'm sorry, that wasn't at all what i meant by that
[8/6/2011 7:34:27 PM] DOG: we never knew that jose paying you guys via lock was an option at all
[8/6/2011 7:34:35 PM] Nick Frame: ok
[8/6/2011 7:34:40 PM] DOG: he told us that his acct's been locked and that the fastest ways for you guys to get paid was via bank wire
[8/6/2011 7:34:47 PM] DOG: then just half an hour ago i'm told by matt
[8/6/2011 7:34:50 PM] DOG: that jose has paid via lock
[8/6/2011 7:35:17 PM] DOG: sorry, i can see how that'd be interpreted
[8/6/2011 7:35:25 PM] Nick Frame: [Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:32 PM] DOG:

<<< no, nick. trust me, we will pay you guys back either way
like i said, as long as jose is alive and well, we will make sure you guys get paid
i promised that from the startthanks. that statement goes a long way. for me at least
[8/6/2011 7:35:26 PM] DOG: that wasn't saying that we are washing our hands of this and not going to pay you guys at all
[8/6/2011 7:35:40 PM] M Moss: yeah that statement is very good to read obv.
[8/6/2011 7:35:48 PM] DOG: but it was saying, if letting jose handle all of the repayments is a possibility
[8/6/2011 7:36:02 PM] DOG: then if we pay you're going to write a public statement saying so...
[8/6/2011 7:36:12 PM] DOG: obviously it's the only thing we can do but to let jose pay you guys via lock
[8/6/2011 7:36:16 PM] DOG: you understand what i'm trying to say?
[8/6/2011 7:36:20 PM] DOG: :x
[8/6/2011 7:36:22 PM] Nick Frame: yah
[8/6/2011 7:36:23 PM] M Moss: yeah it makes sense
[8/6/2011 7:36:31 PM] M Moss: but like
[8/6/2011 7:36:34 PM] M Moss: you cant expect us
[8/6/2011 7:36:36 PM] M Moss: once you've done tha
[8/6/2011 7:36:37 PM] M Moss: to be like
[8/6/2011 7:36:47 PM] DOG: right matt, of course, i understand that
[8/6/2011 7:36:51 PM] M Moss: right, well in all fairness they aren't actually the ones transferring it to us, so we'll drop their names now
[8/6/2011 7:36:57 PM] DOG: but also understand that i've been told by everyone thus far
[8/6/2011 7:37:12 PM] DOG: that i've been helpful, etc. etc., that things i said are in confidence, that our names won't be included, etc.
[8/6/2011 7:37:24 PM] M Moss: the names being included was henrik on the behalf of everyone imo
[8/6/2011 7:37:31 PM] M Moss: some weren't online/some stayed quiet
[8/6/2011 7:37:40 PM] M Moss: i dont want to include you
[8/6/2011 7:37:44 PM] Nick Frame: i dont either
[8/6/2011 7:37:45 PM] M Moss: but i dont think by not speaking in that 30 minutes
[8/6/2011 7:37:51 PM] M Moss: others forfeit their right to an opinion
[8/6/2011 7:37:57 PM] DOG: of course not
[8/6/2011 7:38:31 PM] DOG: but at the same time man, you can't post our names and pretend not to be aware of the consequences it will have on us
[8/6/2011 7:38:35 PM] M Moss: fwiw dog gave me a completely plausible reason for why we dont say jungle and dog have paid us
[8/6/2011 7:38:41 PM] M Moss: it just fuels the nvg fire of
[8/6/2011 7:38:44 PM] M Moss: jose doesnt exist
[8/6/2011 7:38:47 PM] M Moss: it's just jungle and dog
[8/6/2011 7:39:04 PM] DOG: right, but also we've publicly stated we're going to live with jose and now our plans have changed, etc.
[8/6/2011 7:39:17 PM] M Moss: (though how an imaginary character of jungle and dog has managed to sweat + scam us.. idk)
[8/6/2011 7:39:17 PM] DOG: it's just going to be a huge cluster**** and it will hurt both of us dramatically in the public eye
[8/6/2011 7:39:32 PM] M Moss: yeah i mean i think whatever happens it's going to hurt you in the public eye
[8/6/2011 7:39:37 PM] M Moss: and i dont want it to be bad
[8/6/2011 7:39:44 PM] M Moss: because you have been very helpful in getting my money back
[8/6/2011 7:39:47 PM] M Moss: and i am very grateful for that
[8/6/2011 7:39:50 PM] DOG: yeah of course, but as long as you guys have our backs, it won't be too bad
[8/6/2011 7:40:03 PM] DOG: jungle and i have tried to conduct ourselves as best we can given how all this **** exploded
[8/6/2011 7:40:06 PM] M Moss: i see absolutely no reason to say that you guys have been unhelpful in this
[8/6/2011 7:40:08 PM] DOG: and we were the best people to help you guys out
[8/6/2011 7:40:09 PM] M Moss: that would be a lie.
[8/6/2011 7:40:31 PM] Nick Frame: i want yo have your back. but i also want to be sure nothing else is going on. because look what happenned last time i stuck my neck out for someone (Jose)
[8/6/2011 7:40:34 PM] DOG: and again, i don't think we could've done anything differently or better to help you guys out and manage this situation
[8/6/2011 7:40:48 PM] M Moss: yeah, the only problem with completely covering your names up
[8/6/2011 7:40:54 PM] M Moss: is that we don't know what that actually means for ourselves
[8/6/2011 7:40:57 PM] DOG: so given the assurances i've been given and the presumption of privacy, this feels really really dirty that you guys are now taking it back and posting our names
[8/6/2011 7:41:06 PM] M Moss: bc speaking for myself at least, it feels like there's more to what meets our eye in the whole thing
[8/6/2011 7:41:15 PM] DOG: like i said, i have no problem with you guys saying that we were involved in helping uncover and resolve this situation
[8/6/2011 7:41:20 PM] DOG: which is what iw as told you guys would say in the first place
[8/6/2011 7:41:25 PM] M Moss: so i dont know exactly what im getting into by not mentioning your names
[8/6/2011 7:41:30 PM] DOG: right of course
[8/6/2011 7:41:33 PM] DOG: i understand what you mean matt
[8/6/2011 7:42:04 PM] DOG: all i can say is that i've been as forthcoming as i can be, and i can promise, cross my heart and swear to die, that everything of importance has been mentioned to this group already
[8/6/2011 7:42:13 PM] DOG: we've left nothing out
[8/6/2011 7:42:24 PM] DOG: take that for what it's worth though, i imagine not much at this point haha

*I think moss is going to post some of their convo in a minute as well.