I couldn't agree more. This ArronNoak guy parachuted into 2+2 like the captain of the Betonline Incident of Tablegame Cheating? Heresy! (B.I.T.C.H. for short) team. Vigorously defending BOL like his life depended on it is sketchier than the actual incident we are discussing IMO.

For the record, I actually believe that BOL did not actively cheat and am leaning towards this being a dealer screw up. That makes the most sense to me at the moment. It is still a big deal and should someone find new evidence or video, that is where the REAL sh*t storm will hit fans all across the internet.

Just randomly clicked on NVG and saw this thread.

First off, LOL at everyone that thinks it was an honest mistake.

This is completely outrageous. I never play online blackjack because I don't trust it at all, so maybe you could say I am biased, but this absolutely blatant and terrible cheating.

I will make no further comment on the allegations against me.

However I would like to point out that BetOnline and Chico poker network are two distinct entities. BetOnline has a history of integrity and has been quick to act in the past in all situations where it suspected foul play.

still have yet to see another instance of this posted here. there is 1,000's of hours of vods on twitch of people playing these games and nobody can find anything yet?

This is still my main point. I have personally watched a lot of it specifically looking for more examples, and not found any.

However a green man said:

so I guess one non-concrete example is enough to bring a whole company down

But his character doesn't blend in, it stands out and attracts attention. Hell, he passes out tokens with his website to people at the table. He tells people at the table that he is a professional card counter.

He jumps his bets around wildly from hand to hand as the running count fluctuates, while the true count never really changes.

He has a video of himself jumping around table to table on an internet blackjack site, counting one hand, and placing bets as if it were a single deck game.

In one video, he mentions that he is playing $10 units, then says that he has backcounted a table, sits down and places a $350 wager, 35 units, the dealer has an ace as an up card, and he declines the insurance.

He constantly mentions the pitboss watching him, but the pitboss is just standing there doing his job, watching the table, not him.

He "predicts" the dealer to have an ace outloud so that everyone at the table can hear him, he mentions that he knows this because he is shuffle tracking, but that isn't how shuffle tracking works. There is a big and distinct difference between tracking shuffles and locating aces.

Many times he refers to the money he is currently ahead, as "their money", and how he likes to gamble with "their money". This just isn't how any successful gambler looks at things. It isn't their money, it is his money and it isn't any different from any other portion of his money.

He has a video where he demonstrates his amazing speed at counting cards. But it's his wife, turning one card at a time. It's so slow that he has time to verbalize the count with each turned card. I have not played a hand of blackjack in at least 3 years, and I could do what he is doing (minus the verbalization) on 2 different shoes at the same time and at a faster pace.

It all seems like a show to me, he uses a lot of fancy words that he doesn't actually understand. Again, maybe it's just bad editing in the video's, maybe he is actually a blackjack endboss, but it is not how any AP player I have ever known plays blackjack or behaves inside a casino.

If he is so great, surely someone who is more well known from the world of blackjack could vouch for him. I have searched google as much as I am willing, and I can not find any connection between him and anyone of stature in the blackjack community. It seems very odd to me.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...id-etc-1224459

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...15k-me-1224333

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...000-me-1272055

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...11-4k-1120651/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...hread-1127225/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...online-1194093

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...sible-1271392/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...2k-me-1139052/

i think these are the main points!

yeah, the video looks fishy, but so does the wanna-be YT star. seriously, in the internet sub-thread someone posted, that the 'BJ pro' claimed he was offered 250k to take the video down, and he declined b/c he is so super rich and just wants the truth out there, yet he needs to sell his BJ advice and fan gear? ... not to mention, that the real BJ pros try to keep a low profile.

so bottom line is, this guy profits a lot from all the publicity. i don't say he lies, but he isn't like Diamond Flush, Noah SD, Halley or others either.

also ... please, lets get away from this simple black and white thinking. there's no 100% proof, and while we certainly don't need an absolute proof (pun intended btw), i really think we need more than this single incident in one video.

About the 'why should they cheat' argument. Sure, casinos are greedy as f***, and they could make more with this scam .... BUT

- due to the limitation of tables, the Live Casino is just a small part of the whole company
- the overall impact would be laughable (compared to lets say the bookie)
- the scam would need to involve so many people, including dealers, who earn a lol minimum wage, which means there's a high risk, of someone telling someone, leaking this whole thing
- the scam is somehow visible and cheating could be recorded

so bottom line, the risk versus profit ratio isn't that good. i know, still no 'proof' that this was legit, but at least a fair question to give some doubt, until we have more evidence.

last but not least, some ppl itt claim betonline changed the live casino, but i never saw any link to this statement - can someone provide this? thing is, while it makes sense for betonline to get a new supplier, is it possible to switch that fast?

the real interesting question is, could a 3rd party supplier profit from such cheating (e.g. they get a cut from the winnings, not a fixed rate)?

Yeah, that's one thing I can't disagree with - BOL definitely had more than its share of issues a few years ago. They seemed to have turned things around the last couple of years; hopefully this isn't a return to those days.

Well, if you follow a lot of the scam threads here on 2+2 for the last years, there are almost always 2 arguments coming in on the early stages, when a scandal breaks:

1) A friend who says what a good person the alleged scammer is.

2) Someone making the argument why would they cheat, they have so much money.


What if the dealer has free time and can play on his phone until someone sits down. Maybe he just wanted to bust the players as fast as possible to get a longer break.

I don´t know, I haver never played Bj online, but after seeing this video it would not really matter if it was intentional or just a mistake, I would never play there again.

The "BOL has a history of integrity" was meant to be blatant joke, making fun of people who called me a shill.

When playing this I imagine the thing to be most cautious of is the number of hands dealt changing. If they know the cards because they are prearranged, have computer chips in them, or however else, it would then be very easy to cheat. Have a house controlled player jump in when it is more profitable to do so. Then have them stop playing on whatever hand it is more profitable for them to leave. Repeat this from time to time to greatly increase their edge.

If the dealer knows the values of the next two cards, he can choose when to switch them to either help the player's hand or the house's hand.

A dealer has little interest in the house winning a few more dollars, so he is more likely to use his knowledge to help a friend's hand, occasionally. With the method shown, that would be a high risk strategy, as he could easily be spotted by the house, another player, or a watcher.

Therefore, I can't see a dealer risking acting on his own.

If the house knows the values of the next two cards, in theory, they could certainly risk instructing their dealers to switch cards to win the house a few extra dollars, but they would be depending both on the switches being made highly inconspicuously each and every time, (difficult, to say the least, with the systems they had in place), and on their dealers keeping absolutely quiet, forever, about the scam - in reality, both being virtually impossible scenarios to have to rely upon 100% of the time.

Therefore, I can't see the house risking acting in this manner, particularly as it would need to be an active scam to generate "worthwhile" extra profit over a straight game.

Imo, and until proven otherwise, this has to have been a one-off dealer error. (I kind of wonder if the guy was new and is now without a job.)

Yeah maybe, but well if I could bet my entire life vs a donut that this is false, I would.

How about he just did it for the heck of it, out of boredom and to see if it ever gets caught.

Idk what to make of this obvious cheating but

Breakng news: michael morgenstern, blackjack pro has taken down a billion dollar industry and is now being threatened by central american hitmen after refusing a 250k payoff to remove a youtube video

**** is real folks.

Luckily he has an army of disaffected youth who think gambling is a quick road to success and wealth donald trump would admire

Also, they "bro" a whole lot.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=RPAbLGa0dj8

+1 Or possibly a 'dealer pool' bet or dare, which was the first thing which sprang to my kind.

People do silly **** at work all the time - I bet a friend he wouldn't say 'Cry me a river' to HR at his disciplinary hearing. He did it and lost his job -but won $50 from me. (I know, I know, I still feel bad about it, but it was Amazon we worked for so he's better off out of there anyway)

What if he got some share of the extra profits

this would only explain, if the cheating was initiated by the dealer. i was arguing about the possibility, that a massive cheating scheme is going on. Which i still think won't change too much on a global scale for bol.

nevertheless, HH wrote an interesting update w/ statements from betonline: http://www.flushdraw.net/news/cheate...dealer-uproar/

a side story (previously mentioned on calvin ayre, which never got the attention it deserves) is also out now: http://www.flushdraw.net/news/cheate...ned-betonline/

Regarding shoes that can read cards, there is a Shufflemaster product called the i-shoe that is often used in baccarat and sometimes blackjack. I have a few of these shoes and they read the cards with a camera. They are very accurate. The camera views the card that is 2nd from the end, so the card that is dealt has already been read as well as the next one.

Of course they look nothing like the shoe in the video, which appears to just be a standard lucite shoe. But the technology to read the cards exists and works quite well.

Too bad the 1000s of hours of footage of BOL has been made by streamers/youtubers that BOL bankroll. This kind of negates the "one off" argument. With that said I'm split 50/50 here. The difference those specific cards made in the hands is the most suspect part.

All of the footage I watched was of people not affiliated with BetOnline.

So 12 hours of video?

it's also possible not every dealer/table manager w/e is stupid enough to pull this when it's obviously being streamed ( they can see the mic on camera, player clearly talking to someone other than dealer ect. ) not to mention i'd guess less that .1% of all online bj is streamed in general

if i ever murder someone in front of a camera i hope ur all on the jury so i'll be out by noon

You didn't do it more than once right?