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Old 02-20-2017, 01:09 AM   #51
ArronNoak
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

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Originally Posted by Nick_AA View Post
It clearly can't be an honest mistake.


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As much as I like your profile picture I'm going to have to disagree with you here Nick. I give it at least 13% that it was an honest mistake
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:55 AM   #52
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Hilarious thread.
99.9% this was unintentional.
Casinos print money. They don't need to cheat. Especially not on camera.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:59 AM   #53
ArronNoak
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

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Originally Posted by Mike_McDee View Post
Hilarious thread.
99.9% this was unintentional.
Casinos print money. They don't need to cheat. Especially not on camera.
I mean this was my first reaction. I said as much on reddit and got massive number of downvotes. Literally everyone else was concluding that there was some large-scale cheating scandal. Then I came here and people were saying similar things! Started to doubt myself. But yeah, I'm struggling hard to see how people are coming to these conclusions.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:08 AM   #54
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

i don't think betonline is rigged, i play on bo. i think this is completely separate from poker and not even an accurate/fair representation of online casino gaming, which i have 0 interest in anyway. i think it's a clear example that during this hand this one dealer intentionally drew the 2nd card from the deck in the exact spot he needed to. I don't buy it was a slip of his hand the way it was done, and if it was they were so damn unlucky it happened in that spot i'm fine with just assuming they've done this before. mb it's unfair but i'm not going to stop playing there so lol me
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:13 AM   #55
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_McDee View Post
Hilarious thread.
99.9% this was unintentional.
Casinos print money. They don't need to cheat. Especially not on camera.
Believe it or not, many people who print money look for additional unethical advantages (see MLB, steroid era).

Main contributing factor besides the live online dealer controlling the environment even more than they do when you play in a B+M, is that the professional card counter noted that the count was in the player's favor when this "mistake" occurred.

I'd say it was much less than 99.9% unintentional. I'd say they took a shot at a subset of online gamblers (those that gamble on casino games) who are not generally the sharpest around. Very good chance their confidence in their dealers outweighs their confidence in the average online BJ player noticing a move that so far, only a card counter was able to pick up on. These dealers know how to handle a shoe, it's not that tough.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:35 AM   #56
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

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Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
Believe it or not, many people who print money look for additional unethical advantages (see MLB, steroid era).

Main contributing factor besides the live online dealer controlling the environment even more than they do when you play in a B+M, is that the professional card counter noted that the count was in the player's favor when this "mistake" occurred.

I'd say it was much less than 99.9% unintentional. I'd say they took a shot at a subset of online gamblers (those that gamble on casino games) who are not generally the sharpest around. Very good chance their confidence in their dealers outweighs their confidence in the average online BJ player noticing a move that so far, only a card counter was able to pick up on. These dealers know how to handle a shoe, it's not that tough.
what no one has addressed is the fact that they supposedly took the time to make sure it was +EV then only did it once. Hundreds of hours, maybe thousands, of recorded footage and no one's posted a single other example of this happening.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:36 AM   #57
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

I really love what BetOnline is doing with the poker side of things (with a few exceptions) but this is not a good look for them. They need to have an official response soon.

For one thing, this is not DEFINITE proof of planned and calculated cheating by BOL. People saying it is obvious that it was not a dealer mistake, how can you be sure? Different people look and act differently and a smile or whatever 'tell' you have isn't hard evidence. The most SIMPLE explanation was that the dealer was reaching for a card just out of his grasp and managed to flick the top card up and snag the second one. I'm sure people with more time and patience than I will be scouring all recorded BJ sessions online to see if there are any other questionable actions.

Whether it was devious or not, messing something up like this that clearly affected the game's outcome is not acceptable. I will continue playing poker there because it is still very much +EV IMO but will be watching these allegations very closely.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:42 AM   #58
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_McDee View Post
Hilarious thread.
99.9% this was unintentional.
Casinos print money. They don't need to cheat. Especially not on camera.
So can I assume you are not aware of the Absolute Poker / Ultimate Bet superuser scandals where the owners directly participated in cheating players? At the time people were saying exactly what you posted.

I do agree that more instances need to be found to make it more conclusive that cheating occurred. I am guessing that the blackjack sleuths and others are on this and if there is more evidence pointing to cheating it will be uncovered. Popcorn time.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:50 AM   #59
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

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Originally Posted by ArronNoak View Post
what no one has addressed is the fact that they supposedly took the time to make sure it was +EV then only did it once. Hundreds of hours, maybe thousands, of recorded footage and no one's posted a single other example of this happening.
Are you that bad at reading comprehension? I addressed this in the 2nd and 3rd sentences of my 2nd paragraph that you freaking quoted. And so this is my first time ever saying this . . . but nice try, shill.
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:56 AM   #60
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

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Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
Are you that bad at reading comprehension? I addressed this in the 2nd and 3rd sentences of my 2nd paragraph that you freaking quoted. And so this is my first time ever saying this . . . but nice try, shill.
Can you quote the exact sentences you are referring to please?
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:04 AM   #61
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

I feel it's pretty likely this was an accident from the dealer, I used to play some online blackjack for long sessions and fairly often you would get a dealer who plays with the next card coming out before they actually slide it out (waiting for their okay) , he probably was just sliding it up and down and accidentally grabbed next card. The scanner people mentioned is standard for every site, they have a screen behind the camera that shows bets and cards etc and they scan the RFID in the cards so the computer registers it, if there is an issue you can call a moderator of the site and they come review the whole hand / make dealer fix certain things or offer refunds if neccessary etc

Lots of the online BJ dealers are super inexperienced as well from talking to some of them they say they just applied for a 'casino job' online and took a quick training course in some 3rd world country.

The awkward laughing is also standard since they want you to be engaged and they smile their whole down and non stop talk.

I just don't see why they would bother cheating in one of the most obvious manners for a $120 bet when you own a casino which is a literal money printing machine?


Also if you look at the guy who posted the videos channel he has a bunch of really poor quality videos of him getting kicked out of casinos or "big sessions" of making $200 'counting cards' live while pretending to be drunk etc, probably just wants all the hits he can get off capitalizing on a dealer mistake instead of just contacting site about the issue
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:52 AM   #62
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArronNoak View Post
Can you quote the exact sentences you are referring to please?
I'm sorry, it was the 2nd and 3rd sentences of my last paragraph.

No, you don't need me to also quote the aforementioned sentences.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:14 AM   #63
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Random mistake that unfortunately favors the casino and makes the player lose. So unfortunate, but nothing to be worried about. (At least that's what the site employees in this thread want us to think)
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:14 AM   #64
ArronNoak
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
I'm sorry, it was the 2nd and 3rd sentences of my last paragraph.

No, you don't need me to also quote the aforementioned sentences.
Yeah, was only asking you to quote because I wasn't sure if you meant your second or third paragraph.

"I'd say they took a shot at a subset of online gamblers (those that gamble on casino games) who are not generally the sharpest around. Very good chance their confidence in their dealers outweighs their confidence in the average online BJ player noticing a move that so far, only a card counter was able to pick up on."

What does this have to do with the fact that we've only been able to find 1 example of the cheating? There are hundreds or maybe thousands of hours of recorded footage.

If the site is rigged there will be more than one example of cheating.

I've personally watched a couple of hours of footage (at 1.5x speed when the video service allows + skipping sometimes when it's unlikely for them to cheat) and seen no further evidence of cheating.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:37 AM   #65
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Put me in the this is intentional camp. They probably only use the scam rarely hoping to avoid getting caught.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:55 AM   #66
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

.

Last edited by krcmdc; 02-20-2017 at 06:56 AM. Reason: nevermind
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:03 AM   #67
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

I'm not sure if I'm more disappointed by the standard rush to absolute positive 100% certain verdict, or by myself for being even slightly surprised by it.

I'll try to focus on the positive instead:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
He might be laughing at the ploppy that split 2's against a 10 in European hole card blackjack. I know I would be.

I'm not sold. Let's find another instance. Surely someone has videos of this game from the past or more of the session in the video. If they find another incident, we know it's a pattern. If they don't, we know it's a dealer error.

Keep in mind that taking the wrong card kept the dealer from being able to draw against the 19 and 21. Would a house cheat a single time to beat a player that is going to lose it all eventually by playing so poorly while at the same time giving it no chance to beat the other two players? Wouldn't they save it up for when they know an ace is there for the scoop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapsuit5 View Post
I really love what BetOnline is doing with the poker side of things (with a few exceptions) but this is not a good look for them. They need to have an official response soon.

For one thing, this is not DEFINITE proof of planned and calculated cheating by BOL. People saying it is obvious that it was not a dealer mistake, how can you be sure? Different people look and act differently and a smile or whatever 'tell' you have isn't hard evidence. The most SIMPLE explanation was that the dealer was reaching for a card just out of his grasp and managed to flick the top card up and snag the second one. I'm sure people with more time and patience than I will be scouring all recorded BJ sessions online to see if there are any other questionable actions.

Whether it was devious or not, messing something up like this that clearly affected the game's outcome is not acceptable. I will continue playing poker there because it is still very much +EV IMO but will be watching these allegations very closely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreadLightly View Post
I feel it's pretty likely this was an accident from the dealer, I used to play some online blackjack for long sessions and fairly often you would get a dealer who plays with the next card coming out before they actually slide it out (waiting for their okay) , he probably was just sliding it up and down and accidentally grabbed next card. The scanner people mentioned is standard for every site, they have a screen behind the camera that shows bets and cards etc and they scan the RFID in the cards so the computer registers it, if there is an issue you can call a moderator of the site and they come review the whole hand / make dealer fix certain things or offer refunds if neccessary etc

Lots of the online BJ dealers are super inexperienced as well from talking to some of them they say they just applied for a 'casino job' online and took a quick training course in some 3rd world country.

The awkward laughing is also standard since they want you to be engaged and they smile their whole down and non stop talk.

I just don't see why they would bother cheating in one of the most obvious manners for a $120 bet when you own a casino which is a literal money printing machine?


Also if you look at the guy who posted the videos channel he has a bunch of really poor quality videos of him getting kicked out of casinos or "big sessions" of making $200 'counting cards' live while pretending to be drunk etc, probably just wants all the hits he can get off capitalizing on a dealer mistake instead of just contacting site about the issue
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:57 AM   #68
krcmdc
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Are this guy's credentials verified anywhere by anyone who matters in the blackjack world?

After watching a few of his youtube video's, it doesn't seem likely to me that he is any sort of AP.
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:15 AM   #69
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by krcmdc View Post
Are this guy's credentials verified anywhere by anyone who matters in the blackjack world?

After watching a few of his youtube video's, it doesn't seem likely to me that he is any sort of AP.
What videos were you watching? He covers almost everything you would need to know about counting. Counting is not hard. It takes practice, yes, but anyone that can add and subtract the number 1 can count cards. Yes, he looks and talks like a complete degen, but that's the point.
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:21 AM   #70
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

it's one thing to dismiss a big underlying conspiracy/rigging theory, but it amazes me that people can watch that video and think the dealer's action was unintentional
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:28 AM   #71
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Could be, could be not. It sure looks shady. But they also could be laughing about the guy splitting deuces and things get sloppy...

Give me more video evidence with mechanic moves...
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:47 AM   #72
isnortbooze
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Obviously looks very, very bad.

I will say this, though...
On the reddit comments, the guy who made the video mentioned that he doesn't normally play online and only did this video to catch scammers. Seems a little sketchy that no one in the history of playing live blackjack on BetOnline has ever noticed anything like this, but the very first time this guy plays on there, he catches a major scam. After signing up for the purpose of catching a scam.
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:09 PM   #73
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Anybody who say it was accidental is trying to spin this. It is obvious his is groping for just the right position to flick the the top card out of the way. Without a doubt he is cheating. I don't care if it is the only video in existence. He is cheating. We will never see it a gain if BetOnline has any brains. Maybe someone will come up with an old video to verify.

I'm not sure of the dealer rules, but knowing what card is coming next will not help him, right?
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:13 PM   #74
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Doubt many people would even see this scam. Most people are focused on their cards. I had to watch it twice.

also the guy in the video is a pro not a ploppie LOL
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:25 PM   #75
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Re: Chico poker network skin BetOnline blackjack dealer caught cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildspoke View Post
The one thing I don't get is, why? You're printing money.
As long as they have a handle on costs, they are printing money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_McDee View Post
Casinos print money. They don't need to cheat. Especially not on camera.
The houseedge for blackjack is like 0,6% or something close to that.
As i have said earlier in this thread, a cheat like this would multiply the houseedge hugely. Maybe some mathwizzard can calculate this. It wouldnt surprize me if the houseedge could be upped to >3% this way.

Thus printing 5 times as much money!

About the camera, ofcourse this can be done much smoother by a "good" dealer, this guy just ****ed up.

I do agree that 1 single video is not evidence of this happening all the time. But im not giving them the benefit of the doubt after all the past scandals.
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