damn just realizing I just got trolled. wp

For people who are degenerates and feed money into the eco system that allows pros to survive as well as the poker business infrastructure to exist, it is a vice, as in 5 & 6 on the definition list.

And for professional players, 1 & 2 on the definition list are in play because they are actively seeking to engage with and take advantage of the group of people who fit into 5 & 6 or if not engaging with them directly are still indirectly benefiting from them.

how on earth is this not locked yet

Match came about because Mike Dentale took exception to a lot of the stuff that has been under discussion in the last couple of pages of this thread and it's interesting how she won the match and all of the money but doesn't appear to have won over the hearts and minds of many.

Mike Dentale is now challenging all comers to HU it seems, so that is an ongoing area of discussion too.

I'll take Cate's side of the income bet. Any takers? Escrow to Alobar, bet is dependent on Cate taking the bet with Dentale.

The debate about morality of professional poker has been run into the ground in hundreds of other threads. It's not very interesting here.

You need be a leading Lawyer, and experienced to be making 500k a year not some random merely practicing law. I don't believe she just gave up that kind of money at her age, and has also said she is not going back to it and wants to some random AI stuff. How old was the dentist? Early 30s like Cate? When did she retire from law? Late 20s?

From Linked In, it looks like she graduated law school in 2009 and that she stopped practicing in 2015. In 2016, the NY/DC market rate for Big Law lawyers in the class of 2009 was $300k + $90k bonus. I don't have the 2015 numbers, but they were probably about $20-25k lower since market base salaries went up for the first time in a very long time in 2016. She worked at one of the very few firms out there (Boies, Wachtell and Quinn Emmanuel are others) that generally pays consistently higher than the market rate (though individualized based on performance). I can't say for sure she made $500k, but it's perfectly plausible.

I actually went through most of this thread, just to learn whether the match happened or not. I found it interesting how many people made it about a woman playing a man, and the fact that she was a lawyer also seemed to bother some people who have a negative view of attorneys in general. Unfortunately we live in a litigious society so they won't be going away any time soon.

I have played with many women down through the years and learned a long time ago to respect their abilities. I've run into some damn good women players in cash games and tourneys. They're definitely out there and if you don't believe that you're only kidding yourself. The fact that some of them are attractive doesn't change anything imo. To me we are all poker players, plain and simple. As for those who want to condemn the poker industry or poker players in general, there is no requirement that you play. It's voluntary!

I have played poker with many people who are enjoyable company and good competitors, and also run into a few real losers who berate dealers and everyone else. If it's a cash game I can get up and leave. Not so in tournaments where my only option is to call the floor man which I hesitate to do for the most part. I suffer along with everyone else, unless this person just gets too unbearable, then I may share my feelings with them. They typically don't like to be criticized but I can handle it.

I think what stood out for me in this thread is the way Dentale was allowed to act on occasion and basically get away with it. Screaming obscenities at the top of your lungs should never be permitted in civilized poker circles! Not for one minute! I'd say after the first offense/uttering there would be a warning given and he would be expelled after the second such offense. Those who came to Mike's defense and said he is basically a nice guy just don't get it. If you can't control yourself you shouldn't be allowed to play! I think his size allows him to get away with stuff that a smaller person may not get a pass on. I don't care if he's 7' tall and weighs 300 pounds, I would be the first to complain to the TD and I don't care what he thinks about me. Big muscles and a big mouth don't scare me. In fact the opposite is more like it, most bullies have no real heart. The toughest guys I ever met never gave you any warning before they struck.

I would imagine that Mike is tolerated because he loses a fair amount of money playing cards. I suspect that his A live game is okay, but if that match is any guide, he's easy to tilt and when he does he is not good.

I find him somewhat likeable in a New Jersey kind of way. Some of his tweets were on the funny side of funny-mean.

I already posted the range of compensation for associates in her firm for 2014, which may have been the last year she worked there. It was something like $375-575k. There's no question it was possible she made $500k.

only getting around to watch this now.

If Hall was a 5th year+ at a big/boutique firm it's not totally unreasonable she'd be making $500k depending on bonuses. She would have to be on fast partner track.

that defense though

'pokerplayers are the most awesome people in the world'

lmfao

I love the clause where it's dependent on Cate taking the bet!

How else is the bet resolvable?

The dentist I am speaking about was approximately 36 years old and had been out of school and practicing for 9 years.

anyways....many many different posters have provided ample circumstancial evidence that her specific law firm is among the best paying in the country and her salary quote is within their range, not to mention she SAID she made that much. but irrational naysayers still can't believe it.

IF there is an element of untruth to her claims, I would guess that she exaggerated and I would expect it to be in a way that doesn't materially change her claim....like rounding up to the nearest whole number in the +10% or less ball park. For instance, when I'm (rarely) speaking with close friends or family about my income it's faster and easier to just say I make 100k a year...even though it's not technically true. my base salary is $93,700 before bonus or overtime. bonus and overtime range in the $3,000-$6,000 range. so in my best year I make 99,700 and in my worst year I make 96,700. And this is before benefits or retirement which add quite a bit of value. It seems silly to cloud a conversation with all of that, it's much easier to just say 100k which basically conveys the same thing.

I love the comments about how leaving 500k to play poker is the "dumbest thing you could do" even though she has made $875,000 in tracked tournament wins in a little less than 2 years. Yeah, she ran hot, but this also doesn't include cash (or juicy heads up matches with people who underestimate her for whatever reason). You can't tell me you think her decision making was poor if she was able to get those results. Positive variance doesn't account for 100% of her wins. even if you give variance 75% of the credit it would still mean she's making over 100k a year on her skill alone. but yeah....she's a liar.

You must be smart enough to realize that she'll only take the bet if she can win it, so making your offer dependent on her taking the bet means you're freerolling. At this point I believe she's been offered nearly 10k to prove she quit a 500k per year job for poker. A fair bet would be to make a wager on whether or not she'll take the bet. If she doesn't take it within say 30 days, she clearly didn't make that much money and you would lose. If she does take the bet you win.

THe trouble with that analysis is that there may be other reasons she won't take mike's offer, such as he refuses to escrow or she doesn't want to show Dentale her tax return for some other reason. I'm not wild about betting those issues. I'm fine with betting on the 500k income number.

I will say that there's no way she should expect to make anywhere near the same amount of money in poker that she would if she continued her legal career. Note that there's upside in her 500k number, she'd generally expect to make more each year and if she's successful at a place like Kellogg she's making partner somewhere and has the upside to make significantly more than 500k. That doesn't mean she's crazy to quit to become a poker player if it makes her happy in life more generally, but no matter how well she did the last 2 years she has to expect to be taking a huge pay cut.

Bill Perkins offered her 5k to show proof. I think his credit is probably good. Maybe she's waiting to see how much she can get? Either way, if you're serious about trying to make a bet, saying she has to accept is clearly a freeroll. You need to offer a better option than that.

^^not to mention it's not all about the money. Many people would take a pay cut to still be more than comfortable (not to mention the amount of money she prob has in the bank already, may own property outright etc), be their own boss and have a way less crazy schedule than that of a lawyer at a big firm.

True, there are good reasons to make the switch, especially if your young and don't have a family/mortgage. But, from a pure money perspective (and that's not the only relevant variable) she's going to take a huge pay cut in the long run.

I totally agree with this actually...but people like mike dentale and others who say its "the dumbest thing you could do" are clearly only evaluating life decisions in terms of earning potential....as if those are the only things that matter.

there have been numerous psychology and happiness studies that show that once people are above a certain "danger zone" as far as income then more income has diminshing returns in terms of happiness. In other words, going from 25,000 a year to 50,000 a year shows measurable increase in happiness, but going from 100k a year to 200k a year shows a much smaller increase in happiness. I don't know where the line is, obviously its dependent on the person and the cost of living in their area but Cate probably correctly assumes that she has many different opportunities to make 100k a year and for her, that may be more than enough to be happier than her job where she earned 500k a year.