http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-pros-1327217/

Lock pros have a lot of integrity. Go to Portugal and live it up on players who have money stuck on lock and ride around in limousines.

excellent pun

You can't cash out transferes though ever?!

It's good Lock Pros are now speaking publicly about this. It was extremely eerie to see everybody keeping quiet. Whatever the right course of action, that can't be it.

I've, no joke, spent two and a half hours now trying to write a post that is painstakingly fair and diplomatic, so I'm going to give up on that since I'm sure what I have to say doesn't matter much anyway. I'll just say that even though there's some chance I'm not thinking about things the right way, my instinct is that lock pros are dead wrong in how they're handling this, and it makes me sad because I know some of these people are good and do care about acting ethically in the poker community. Some of them even helped teach me back when I started what that means. Maybe that means I should trust them more and give them time, but I think it's just really tough to come to the right conclusion here in their spot when caught up in it. It all makes me wonder if I'm really as ethical as I think and if I really would do the right thing if I were in their spot.

It looks really, really bad. The pros have talked about processing issues, but what it really looks like is that the site just doesn't have enough money. It looks like this is mostly because Lock's business model has been to pay out more money than it makes to pros to grow the site, or just keep it alive. Unless pros are really confident that this isn't true, I don't see how they can possibly take this line. At the very least, they have to realize why it looks so bad from the outside.


I agree with ChicagoRy, fslexcduck, and others that it's hard to feel a ton of sympathy for some Lock players who knew the risk and played anyway. But there are people who aren't as connected with 2+2 and other parts of the poker community who really didn't know what they were getting into. And even for the more connected folks, it was still a situation where the more on the inside you were, the more you knew the right people, the more you knew to stay away. I knew private details of payment and rakeback programs that made it extra clear the economics of the site were unsustainable. There absolutely were people who played on Lock because the pros said it was OK, often doing so while signing them up under their plan. I do have a lot of sympathy for these people.

I'm hoping for the best for everyone involved.

Most of the Lock pros are like everyone says carefreely tweeting trying to get more people to deposit when lock currently not paying out is immoral and despicable. Lock pros while speaking up in this thread, are just repeating lies from Jen Larsen and mgmt that things will improve and other nonsense that has been spewed by Lock rep shane in the lock thread. Promises are great it is now time to show the players the money or face the inevitable.

Lock Poker is already in violation of U.S. law, and regardless of whether or not their business fails, player funds should have always been segregated from operational funds. If player funds are not available, then Lock is, in addition to being guilty of basic money laundering charges, a big, fat, Ponzi scheme.

The best part of it though is that Full Tilt and Pokerstars got off easy. Anyone benefiting from this Lock nonsense if player funds are not segregated is likely to see the inside of a prison cell, "pros" included.

This. It doesn't matter how vigilant Lock Pros claim to be behind the scenes -- they're still encouraging people to unknowingly take a serious financial risk.

I have never played on Lock but was wondering if Rizen has said anything. He's garnered this nice guy image since I began playing in 2004-2005 but was scumbag shilling UB and now scumbag shills Lock and strikes me as a dude who is trying to grab every last dollar until the ship sinks and he can disappear.

^^ this, and also: Melanie, are you still accepting paychecks from Lock? Why?

How is accepting money from Lock helping to ameliorate the situation?

So you knew this and didn't let the rest of the community know so they could stay away if they wanted to?

I don't get everyone here sucking your **** just because you're a "pro". I found your post to be somewhat antagonistic and self-serving...and you insulted the intelligence of just about anyone who knows anything about the current situation at Lock. You didn't address the fact that you are actively promoting a site that is stealing players money and lying to it's customers. Even if you made a three page post I don't see how you could justify that. Rather than being angry at people who sullied your marketplace thread you should have at least feigned shock, anger and compassion. I just don't understand you; then again I'm someone who pays my own way in the poker world.

It has prolly already been posted (at least I hope so), but anyone who was still playing on Lock or ANY site that still accepted american players after BF has GOT to be kidding when they complaint about cashouts...

Accepting or not accepting US players has nothing to do with solvency.

If this was a DOJ shutdown I'd generally agree - you have to know there is a risk playing on a site that accepts US players given the current legal state of online poker in the US.

That has nothing to do with a company claiming they have player funds segregated but being unable to actually cash anyone out, US or ROW. Oh, and let's not forget their new policy that you can never withdraw transferred funds OR WINNINGS GENERATED FROM THOSE FUNDS! Not, there's a play through requirement (which would be standard). Just, nope, you can't withdraw transferred funds. We just decided that. It's play money now. Please, play with it to give to us via rake until it's all gone.

+ infinity I felt the same way reading his self serving post just regurgitating the constant spam and lies and promise of payment from Shane in Lock thread.

Even after knowing all of the above people where still complaining in lock thread that transferres where taking longer then the usual instant time it took to get transferred funds. I mean people in the know at 2 plus 2 are still transferring what chance do people not part of 2 plus 2 depositing on lock have? Madoff was able to run his company and bilk unsuspecting customers , people know about lock and are still depositing and transferring . I guess people really want to play poker and Lock and its pros are casting out nets catching unsuspecting minnows and even players in the know.

Thankfully 2 + 2 and its admin took a stance and pulled all of Locks adds and took away the legitimacy lock had being a part of the 2 plus 2 community.

I'm sure Melancholy is a smart girl, but how can she make that post and think that will bring any satisfaction whatsoever? Me getting money from Lock helps the community can't you see? There are a dozen yes or no questions that would have been a much better start.

She'd better break her contract, because no other pro is going to say **** now and she will be the whipping boy going forward. It wouldn't be so bad if Lock wasn't everything that people said it was.

I posted a video 9 months ago melodramatically called "The truth about the poker community" which in part blasted lock pros, and got bad reviews for being too mean spirited/self righteous. I wasn't exactly quiet about it. But you're right that it was a typical dilemna where you're not sure what the right thing to do is when you're told information in confidence, and it's very possible I should have been even louder in my criticism of Lock to get the word out to more people.

Fair enough. Didn't know you posted a video about it and I'm sure a lot of people wish would have listened to it now.

There's a few Lock pros on twitter standing up for Lock with the usual Shanespeak.

It's a pretty pathetic display.

That's the point. The current enviroment for online poker in US has everything to do with solvency of any online poker site operating in the US. They can't be 100% healthy if they have to use shady, or at least, non fully regulated payment processors.

Link please?

since they care how can i contact them with my problems. will they have booth for lock complaints at wsop. when june rolls around do i have to go up to lock pro to find out what is going on if cash outs haven't improved. i mean its sad you have to catch one there or in the marketplace before they respond. i doubt many pros or players will vouch for any one tweeting and promoting a Ponzi scheme, even you mel. you continue to do more harm to your rep by shameless promoting of this site then good. I can hear them crying why do lock players keep asking wheres my money or cash out at. Prob because you kept promoting a Ponzi long after it was known to be robbing players. Enjoy the wsop lock pros , don't wonder why players are asking you ?s about there funds , long after the Ponzi over player will be asking you the same ?s is it worth it.

There are still plenty of lock "pros" that have not been mentioned in this thread.

I know, I was just pointing out that someone saying "you should have expected this, they accept US players" is confusing two completely different issues. If Lock went down because of a DOJ situation like BF, people would have very little sympathy (IMO) for players (US players especially) because you have to know you're assuming that risk in the current legal environment.

In this situation, we have a site that professed to keep players funds segregated but, apparently, has never proven this and has, in fact, REFUSED to allow independent verification of this assertion. After BF, there was a lot of talk about how critical having segregated accounts was. If the Lock T&S asserts the funds are segregated, casual players (assuming they learned about the importance of segregation after BF) could easily assume the site was safe.

My only real point was that it's apples and oranges to say "players should have known better" when you're talking about allowing US players vs. knowing about fund segregation and the growing evidence that Lock was lying through its teeth about this issue.

All this is predicated on the fact that if Lock can prove that player funds are still safe and segregated, they should do so. Immediately. Actually they should do it a year ago, but whatever.

I'm assuming they have been lying about player fund segregation because that's what the evidence suggests. So now we have a situation where it isn't enough that a site tells us their funds are segregated. We need sites to be willing to provide independent verification of segregation, and any site that refuses to do so should be called out on it immediately and people should refuse to play there.

Going forward if you decide to take a risk on a site that claims fund segregation but refuses to prove it (and you're aware of these issues), then it's hard to have a ton of sympathy.