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Old 02-11-2014, 04:13 AM   #2976
PTLou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
If you had a choice between two and ONLY these two scenarios, which do you think is more fair?

A) The top 27 players get the remaining money chopped up by ICM or chip count and the bustouts get nothing.

B) Top 27 players get 27th place prize money and the remaining money goes to the busted out players that didn't cash.

If those were the only two options?




PS I do not know this to be the case.........
Horrible spot. Given only one choice , (A)seems like the the lesser of two evils.

( B) has potential to open Pandora's box for future MTT organizers and goes against spirit and and intent of all things tournament poker. I for one would hate to see that.

Regardless of the issues with the fake chips , all had same random chance of benefitting or being hurt.

I liken it to bad rain in a golf tourny , Sucks, but sucks the same for all . Tee it up and play.

PS more arrests please.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:21 AM   #2977
justAnobody
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
If you had a choice between two and ONLY these two scenarios, which do you think is more fair?

A) The top 27 players get the remaining money chopped up by ICM or chip count and the bustouts get nothing.

B) Top 27 players get 27th place prize money and the remaining money goes to the busted out players that didn't cash.

If those were the only two options?




PS I do not know this to be the case.........
A beacause its the fairest solution for those 27 players
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:41 AM   #2978
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

A obv. What possible justification is there for B?

The starting point for any solution is ICM/chip chop for the remaining 27. I don't see how that part can be in any real doubt. Anything beyond that is an act of goodwill by Borgata.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:38 AM   #2979
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Is a really fair for 29th place finisher who may of been drastically affected by counterfeit chips? I'd say 28th but that's men an no one really likes him.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:10 AM   #2980
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

http://www.wral.com/clogged-pipe-bri...case/13377014/

More trouble for Lusardi
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:11 AM   #2981
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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He's a hustler essentially he may of been selling chips maybe it was fluke he was the chip leader if he's made a million in bootleg DVDs why mess up a good thing
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:16 AM   #2982
mrdadio48
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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hahaha! put this guy away. good find
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:38 AM   #2983
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by cashdaddy69 View Post
I like the last line of the story:

The court document noted that Lusardi recently received a shipment from China labeled "plastic chips"
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:57 AM   #2984
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
If you had a choice between two and ONLY these two scenarios, which do you think is more fair?

A) The top 27 players get the remaining money chopped up by ICM or chip count and the bustouts get nothing.

B) Top 27 players get 27th place prize money and the remaining money goes to the busted out players that didn't cash.

If those were the only two options?




PS I do not know this to be the case.........
As I said in prior posts, option B opens Pandoras box for future cheating.

Mr. Savage, what is your opinion on how this should be resolved?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #2985
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by therealsaltydog View Post
As I said in prior posts, option B opens Pandoras box for future cheating.
and you are wrong every time you say it, so please cease and desist
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:23 AM   #2986
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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and you are wrong every time you say it, so please cease and desist
How did you come to that conclusion? Did you use the magic 8ball again pipes?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #2987
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by therealsaltydog View Post
How did you come to that conclusion? Did you use the magic 8ball again pipes?
I don't understand where this Pandora's box comes in.

Bring in counterfeit chips.."hey, at the very least we will get a refund!" No, you will get many years in jail.

A tourney has to be canceled. Cancelling a tourney in the middle is very extreme and is this the only major one in the past decade? It will not be canceled if there is a colorup error or if someone is found with a few chips. Thus there will not be people sitting around yelling refund as you suggest would happen.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:55 AM   #2988
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by LASJayhawk View Post
Well they ponied up the $500 bucks understanding they could win the tournament. I don't give a rats rear if they busted out on the 1st hand, they had no chance to win the tournament, there isn't going to be a winner.
This is an illogical position. If a natural disaster prevented the final 27 from playing out the tournament, and the prizes are divided based on chip count, there would be no refunds to bust outs just because there is no winner. Therefore the fact that there wouldn't be a winner is, by itself, no reason to give refunds. Anyone who busted out still had a chance at all the prize money promised.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:03 PM   #2989
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by TimM View Post
This is an illogical position. If a natural disaster prevented the final 27 from playing out the tournament, and the prizes are divided based on chip count, there would be no refunds to bust outs just because there is no winner. Therefore the fact that there wouldn't be a winner is, by itself, no reason to give refunds. Anyone who busted out still had a chance at all the prize money promised.
Your illogical. The dge didn't come in and cancel a compromised tournament. Big difference.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #2990
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
If you had a choice between two and ONLY these two scenarios, which do you think is more fair?

A) The top 27 players get the remaining money chopped up by ICM or chip count and the bustouts get nothing.

B) Top 27 players get 27th place prize money and the remaining money goes to the busted out players that didn't cash.

If those were the only two options?




PS I do not know this to be the case.........
Neither option should be considered fair, but option B is more unfair then option A. Neither scenario has the casino taking any responsibility.

IMO(at the very least!) rake for the event should be refunded to all players plus maybe comped rooms for every night that a registered player stayed at Borgata throughout the duration of that event. Loserdi's finishing payout gets added to remaining prize pool, all bust outs prior get moved up a spot(payouts adjusted accordingly) & also, Day1 chip bonus has to be adjusted. Then, ICM chop for remaining players(sorry guys). I just don't think bringing them back to play it out would ever be feasible.

But then again, I still kinda think Loserdi had accomplices. So nothing can be resolved until that gets proven otherwise since who knows, he/she may remain in the final 27 and/or may have also busted out itm.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:26 PM   #2991
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by TookURCookie View Post
IMO(at the very least!) rake for the event should be refunded to all players plus maybe comped rooms for every night that a registered player stayed at Borgata throughout the duration of that event.
So a player who stayed at another hotel or at a friend's house down the road gets less of a payout than someone who happened to stay at the Borgata? Why should accommodation selection get you more or less compensation for playing in the exact same tournament?
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:23 PM   #2992
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM View Post
This is an illogical position. If a natural disaster prevented the final 27 from playing out the tournament, and the prizes are divided based on chip count, there would be no refunds to bust outs just because there is no winner. Therefore the fact that there wouldn't be a winner is, by itself, no reason to give refunds. Anyone who busted out still had a chance at all the prize money promised.
Why do so many people continue having difficulty understanding the difference between an event that is ended prematurely and one that has been cancelled? Cancelled has a very specific meaning.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:32 PM   #2993
Polarized Mike
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by DC2LV View Post
Why do so many people continue having difficulty understanding the difference between an event that is ended prematurely and one that has been cancelled? Cancelled has a very specific meaning.
Thank you. A ray of clarity and realism in a fog of BS.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:47 PM   #2994
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

The tournament was started, significant play took place, and then it was ended prematurely. The use of the word "cancelled" does not change this, and does not obligate a specific resolution. If it did, then all prize money already awarded should be clawed back, and all buy-ins refunded, with no regard to the play that actually happened. The fact that this is not being done immediately shows that the DGE does not necessarily agree with your interpretation of the word "cancelled", even though this could be the eventual interpretation.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:55 PM   #2995
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by DC2LV View Post
Cancelled has a very specific meaning.
What would that be? Be specific.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:01 PM   #2996
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by cashdaddy69 View Post
Great find!
That being said we are at 3 weeks out and no more arrests, I think by now now if others were involved they would have been handcuffed by now. I thought others could be involved from the Raleigh area but now having doubts.
It's been long enough
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:02 PM   #2997
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

I looked at the New Jersey Criminal Justice Process to try to determine what step we are on.

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/crproc.htm

The Criminal Justice Process
  • Intake
  • First Appearance
  • Bail
  • Right To Counsel
  • Substance Abuse Evaluations
  • Pre-Indictment Events
  • Plea Bargains
  • Pretrial Intervention Program (P.T.I.)
  • The Grand Jury
  • The Indictment Process
  • The Pre-Arraignment Conference and Arraignment
  • The Status and Pretrial Conferences
  • Trials
  • Presentence Investigations, Reports and Sentencing
  • Post-Conviction Motions
  • The "TEAM" concept in Criminal Case Processing

I believe the case is in the Pre-Indictment Events phase.

Unless there is a guilty plea, it looks like the case must be presented to a Grand Jury, and then within twenty-one days of the return of an indictment, a pre-arraignment conference is held. A formal arraignment occurs no later than 50 days after an indictment.

So ... there may not be an early resolution to this.

The wheels of justice (such as it is) turn slowly.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:47 PM   #2998
mrmarcon
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

Lusardi has been a busy little fella.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:39 PM   #2999
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
What would that be? Be specific.
I don't think it will be played out, but do you guys really think it couldn't be finished if that's what they decide just because they used the word cancelled? that's laughable. Cancelled is not a written law just a word in the dictionary.
Maybe they will replay the whole tournament from the start. I could see them doing that rather than just handing out cash refunds.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:14 PM   #3000
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Re: Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1- Cancels event- Arrest made-No Resolution

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Originally Posted by cashdaddy69 View Post
As per the report

".....He told investigators that he had numerous boxes shipped to the homes of friends and relatives to avoid detection."

When did he get the bail ? There was no report of him bailed out. Is NJDGE trying to hide the news of him out on the bail?
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