Has anyone on here ever played live? (rhetorical question)

Amazing how little accountability the players are taking in policing themselves during this tournament. Try to sit in any live room for ten minutes without the floor being called in to make a trivial ruling on string bets, clock, verbal declarations being binding, chips crossing the bet line, cards touching the muck, dented/marked cards....and so on. Poker players absolutely pounce on anything that remotely hints at an infringement of rule breaking. I find it impossible to believe that there were blatantly fake chips in play and everyone just decided to continue playing or even accept those chips in a pot. Point being it wasn't so blatantly noticeable to incite outrage and cause cease of play by the players. Sure some (definitely not the vast majority) decided to point out suspicious things to the floor separately. Why wasn't play stopped at every table that noticed the chips? Why didn't anyone see the chips be added or stack size unexplainably grow? Probably because the deception was well hidden, as well as confused by legitimate chips appearing in multiple colors. Why should the players be so angered the Borgata didn't see this the second it happened, but they were completely duped themselves? Every live room I've ever played makes it abundantly obvious that players have zero problem being very vocal to demand resolutions immediately. I refuse to believe 4500 people all sat silent, or just made side suggestions to the staff if they knew about this. Especially harder to believe knowing it was dominated by east coast brash attitude players. (I'm an east coast player so that isn't a shot.)

There is also a majority opinion that the tournament was run terribly. The hilarious part about these stories is the number of rebuys that the tournament had. Those that did rebuy did little to take a stand against the enormous deficit in competency and execution by the staff. The numbers in the tournaments that followed certainly did little either. Not sure what your experience is with casinos, but they will treat you like crap as long as they make money. Look at Foxwoods as prime example. As long as games are good it doesn't matter how they treat you. You will go back. No way IMO does a casino in a depressed town dish out $2mil for pr. They will just spend something like $100k to make the next tourney irresistible.

I don't know what the "fair" resolution is. It was correctly stopped. "Stopped" may have been better word to use than "cancelled" based on this thread. The gaming commission will have a resolution. It won't have anything to do with public relations for Borgata. For those looking precedent, look how many refunds were given or class actions taken when Men the Master was found cheating at Foxwoods with extra tournament chips in his room. (hint: zero)

All that said....I hope everyone get's a refund and is paid equitably in prizes. I'd rather that money be in the poker community than a casino or gov fine. Good luck.

That's not how it went down during this tourney... At the end of day 1B I bagged my own chips after being the only one to count them. I wrote my name, player ID # and the amount I bagged myself without anyone else verifying anything.
Day 2, I went to my seat, my chips were there in the same sealed bag from the night before... I handed the dealer my Borgata players card with my ID. She 'glanced' at it and handed it back to me with a pair of scissors and wished me good luck lol..

Zero structure or verification... Im surprised the Borgata didn't have us all dealing rotation!

It is all about me! Seriously, you forgot about:

There are no dogs in this fight on my end so I don't care what happens about the money, but I do care about the integrity of the game, For all of us I hope that something positive come out of this situation.

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Tab usually only there for the day shift, I'm guessing it would've been Andrew to count his chips if anything, doubt it would've been Tab but I could be wrong here

How do they do it at WSOP? Does floor verify your chip count (and $ written on bag)?

When Borgada pays the final 27 players.
Borgada will pay according to chip count. They will not pull out any of the fake chips. Unless they can prove you cheated at any point in tournament. This could be by you pulling fake chips out of your pocket or by someone you know else fake chips into your stack. If you cheated in any you will be disqualified and your prize will go next in line. Also players who went out close to the bubble may end up collecting winnings. Due to number of possible disqualified players.

this is the least probable outcome imo

Beats me. I always go busto just before dinner break.

Neither contract law nor negligence law allows for the collection of travel expenses, hotel expenses or payment for travel time so you guys should stop arguing about it. Contract law would limit the damages to the benefit of the bargain i.e, the entry fees, with no allowance for consequential damages unless agreed btw the parties (rarely in a contract drafted by one party).

Negligence law only allows for the collection of damages proximately caused by the negligent act. Expenses incurred before the negligent act don't qualify. If the remaining 27 had to incur expenses to come back and finish, those expenses would probably be recoverable.

Fraud or punitive damages are remote in light of the facts.

Yes. I played in a WSOP Regional up at Foxwood last April and at the end of each flight the dealer did the chip count, players verified and the dealer wrote the amount on the bag. I don't recall how it went down at the start of day 2 but I know the WSOP dealer didn't just had me scissors and wish me good luck lol

Day 2 at foxwoods you get a list of players at your table with chip counts. Makes it harder to add chips since everyone at your table is aware of what you should have.

to me this is the equivalent to a smoking gun in regard to conspiracy or multiple offenders. There was a public statement that said 800k fake chips were found in play correct? Are we to believe that one guy added to his stack 5K at a time until he finally introduced all 800K-1.1mil or whatever??? Unnoticed? Not possible unless there were other denominations of fakes and/or staff was involved.

Were there other denominations of fakes?

Who stacked Lusardi when he strangely "jammed blind?" Just curious

seems like there must be coconspirators that likely will never be named publicly.

"The God Damn Germans got nothing to do with this!"

People seem to think borgata is some poor company being scammed here by players. Let's remember they didn't provide proper security they were notified of fake chips before a floor counted his chips at the end of his flight. Lusardi knocked out people who re entered and knocked out others. The tournament was cancelled so no one had a chance to win ever.

Borgata knew the risk of the event center they gambled and lost this time the house loses stop defending borgata like they are innocent they are far from that.

nice first post

I am too lazy too, but a quick count shows they made $367,471 on the $3.5kBI MainEvent.

https://twitter.com/WPTlive/status/4.../photo/1/large

Obviously you missed my point entirely.

The damages will be "fair" if they are largely punitive in nature, not compensatory. So the dozens of nits debating exactly how much the fake chips influenced each and every player can let it go... any week now.

More like $245800

No. You just count bag and tag. No verification at all

Excluding side events and a few others

lmao

pat:

Oh, I disagree with that. If there were co-conspirators involved, they will be named, charged, and prosecuted. A guy like Christian Lusardi, with a prior criminal record and a history of cutting plea bargain deals, will likely rat out any co-conspirators. There's no way he is going to be a "stand up guy" and take the rap all by himself. I seriously doubt if Mr. Lusardi, even with his proven lack of criminal prowess, will take the fall for this all by himself and wind up doing a 10-20 year stretch at Rahway. Besides, if Christian and yjbic are one and the same person, he's already indicated (here in this thread last Thursday night) that others are involved. If I were betting on this, I would guess that more arrests will be forthcoming.

There's still a chance that this Shakespearean drama has not yet played out ...

I doubt Lusardi is alone in this or even the mastermind. I put the over/under on his time served at 18 months. Unlike a lot of people here who KNOW everything, this is jmo. Obv I don't really know.

"The Imbroglio of the Open"

You see, words have meanings and when you misuse words, people don't think you know what you are talking about. Explain the conduct you think exposes the borgata to punitive damages. Then Look up punitive and compensatory damages and figure out which type is considered "fair".


The reason people are debating what's fair given these circumstances is because there needs to be a balancing of the competing parties interests that conflict with each other. Your bias does not allow you to understand or meaningfully participate in this debate.