Over and over, people are saying, "Do something! We need results!"

Guess what? They are doing something. They have been doing more for poker players, as Skallagrim pointed out, than we give them credit for.

Yes, I think there should be more national attention for our plight. The excuses of "Nobody cares" and "They think we're all degens" do apply. Many people do feel this way, but most people don't have a clue about what has happened to us. Some of these people (non-poker playing voters) would be on our side!

We do have supporters amongst the members of the public! We just have to reach them. It's not as easy as telling the PPA to get some airtime. You want them to buy some airtime? Where are they gonna get the money? Do you know how much money this would cost? They're using the money to lobby. I don't know how futile that is, but I hope that it is making a difference.

If you've given $20 and are crying out for results from the PPA, then think about this: What would you do with that twenty dollars? Can you do anything?

The answer is YES!

What we need to realize is that there are things we can do. We don't need a ton of money to do several things.

Yes, we can make calls and emails... and wonder if they're just ignoring & laughing at us. I still think it won't hurt to do so.

We need to get together and put all of this energy into showing the whole country who we are and what this is all about!

People don't care and think we're degens? Let's change their minds!!!

We need to get together and do something ourselves to make the change.

How many people are willing to give what may turn out to be a fraction of the effort that the PPA members have already given for years (while we -myself included- did nothing) to help our cause?

Every one of us can do something. If we all put forth some effort, then we'll be much better off.

There's a thread started by disgruntled players like you who are willing to do something about this. We need more to join us.

NVG thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29.../#post26189542

Original thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...hread-1024101/

So far, we only have a few groups with a few members. This just started a day ago, so we need you!

The D.C. group is going to pass out flyers, talk to the public, and have them fill out questionnaires at the national mall within the next couple of weeks. That's just the first thing. There are plans for other things like demonstrations and rallies.

About rallies- yes, they can be effective, but they take a ton of planning and can seem like a failure if few people attend. I do have an idea that I think would work which I won't get into now... it's basically a day with a big rally in D.C. as well as little rallies spread across the country. Groups of all sizes in separate places protesting. This would garner attention; it would be unavoidable!

The point about rallies is that they are not the only things groups can do. Grab a few people, print out flyers, and talk to the public! It takes a little time and effort, but you have to do it.


Start a group, join a group, or help us with suggestions/ideas for methods of group action.



It's put up or shut up time.

Let me preface this by saying I have a lot of respect for your posts, but I have to strongly disagree. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand, you say that you have very little influence because of lack of support, etc. On the other, you say that you guys have put pressure on the DOJ in a matter of days, which is laughable.

Who does the DOJ have to answer to? Certainly, you guys don't have enough political clout to lean on them, as you have admitted in this thread, yet you claim you did just that. Which is it?

The fact that they aren't "letting us play" has nothing to do with them "caring" about us. They are enforcing the law as they see it and are allowing citizens an avenue to receive funds that are rightfully theirs, as they see it.

Tried to put a little humor in there. Failed though.

+1

God bless US!

Somebody in a now locked thread asked what they should get with their FPPS. I suggested we get together and get:

LOL Tom. Senators accepting FPPS.

Should've made this a lock back when Dario was shopping for a wife.



Missed opportunities

Looks like I was correct on the second point and at least close on the first. Maybe they are a 5-7 person organization.

Don't know where you get the idea that they are a "multi-million dollar organization". All the evidence points to a budget of less than $2M/yr, perhaps less than $1M.

Perhaps your intelligence needs to take on easier tasks.

Um, no.

Their sole purpose as outlined in their Mission statement is to make access to poker, including online poker, legal for US players. The ways to do that are to win in court, and to get favorable legislation. That's why they are focussing their pitifully small resources on legal efforts, lobbying, political support and media appearances. They are doing exactly the sort of things that they have to do.

I think they are just putting small dents into the target, though. My view is that they ought to put more effort into growing the capacity of the organization, so they can swing a bigger hammer. But I can understand why they might not have the internal power to solve that bootstrapping problem. Furthermore, until Black Friday, was there any real prospect of being able to grow a large organization of those notoriously anti-social, antagonistic, uncooperative and critical lifeforms called poker players? I'm not suprised that they don't have a functionary dedicated to locating and absorbing volunteers. You're a perfect example of why that would have been a waste of time up to last weekend.

LOL that's awesome. They aren't allowing point purchases?

Cliffs: heartfelt essay, took me an hour to write, I'm disappointed so badly with the PPA it ain't funny...

Hey guys, I've read the thread and I'm just as fed up with the PPA as the next guy (see my other posts in threads) but what it comes down to is that the "leaders" of PPA lack the tenacity, intestinal fortitude, and leadership skills required to bring about the results that the community has entrusted them for. We as poker players have sheepish tendencies and herd behavior. We would love to concentrate all our collective passion onto a few individuals who would be fueled by the energy and have the backing & support of the poker community, but people burn out, and people must realize this so we can once again be self-reliant. We the community are dithering about whether to stay supportive of PPA or to go back to the drawing board and hope the community spawns something better than the PPA (and truthfully, I don't think we could do any worse) but imagine if we had some REAL leadership and inspired action--think Noah & his work on the multi-accounting scandal or some of the other home-runs that have arisen organically through 2p2 or whatever.

The PPA is--based on results--highly incompetent and ineffective. All they can basically do is try to "sell" their minor accomplishments and convince supporters that they are achieving results--which is why I ask fellow people to judge the PPA on its results, not on its ability to spin propaganda & claim that they have power or effectiveness because they have neither and it's time to realize that for 3 years, they have not helped the average poker player--but merely "stood up for" the average poker player, which is not what anyone wants. We don't want our voices heard, we want the right to enjoy playing poker without every layperson having to take political actions. We need real leadership, real results, and no more mixed messages from within the poker community. We're all on the same side, but PPA was never invented for the right reasons, and now poker has worsened for all of us. The only people who have benefited are the elite 1% of the PPA, but the community has been left behind and abandoned.

I don't think that Skalagrim has said that the PPA has very little influence. That's closer to my line.

Skallagrim is better postitioned to measure the influence of the PPA than either you (as you have made obvious) or I. But at least I am concious of what it is I don't know. You're statements are without foundation.

This in particular kind of annoys me. I really respect what the PPA does and I live very close to the Engineer and would surely buy the guy a beer anytime he would like. But you are, and have voluntarily been the voice for online poker for years. While I understand that pros simply could come forward I doubt it would take much convincing right now to get pros to step forward to help your cause. Look at the quadjacks ustream, they are getting people, players, processors to come forward publicly to talk about online poker. As the voice of the American poker player I would think these same people would line up to help your organization. You should reach out to them instead of hoping they step forward.

I do agree that the players themselves have not been as vocal in the past and accepted the status quo, although I think they, as well as myself thought we were making huge strides forward.

Is seems the DOJ had evidence of a multi-million dollar money laundering ring fall into their laps. I don't fault them for moving forward, it may even be criminal if they didn't . But I also don't think expressing your anger towards the DOJ isn't a bad thing. I think any backlash that the DOJ, Bill Frist, and the current Administration face is good public discourse. How ever I think moving forward we need to realize we have to work with what we have. There is momentum in the media and anger in the poker community that could spark a push towards legalization of online poker, but we may well have a short window for capitolizing on this.

http://forums.colbertnation.com/?pag...ew&forum_id=63

http://forums.thedailyshow.com/?page...hread_id=39781

Above are the forums for the Colbert Report, and the Daily Show which ask for story ideas. Although there are already post supporting online poker, and asking them to cover the situation, I feel that we really need to make a push to have them cover the stories. Please post your thoughts, Obama can ignore us in a townhall but I do feel any media attention would be awesome for us.

I hate to say it, but I agree with the op somewhat.

Feel like the PPA should really be doing more....


=/

I wouldn't be surprised in The Daily Show or Colbert would actually agree to have either Papa's or D'Amato (or maybe a better representative) on for an interview about the situation. TDS would be better since Colbert tends to side track his interviewers with some crazy antics. But either one would be a good start and they both have lesser know subject matter interviews on their shows.

... and a pony.

If you want to measure absolute results, with just two scores, total success and less than total success, then yeah, perhaps we could agree that the PPA is ineffective.

If you measure results against typical results for organizations of the type, I think they have been reasonbly effective. Do you know how difficult it is to get national media coverage for an unpopular issue without blowing something up? Yet at least three PPA spokespeople got widespread media coverage in less than a week.

When you measure results against resources at hand, I think they did remarkably well at the lobbying and media campaign.

You're like a guy who has a 20 ton boulder in his back yard that he wants moved to the front. Two guys you don't know volunteer to do what they can for you - a 70 year old ex-taxi-driver (qualified at moving things, obv.) and his 12 year old grandson. Since you're a nice supportive guy, you even give them a tool to help them with their work. And it is the right class of tool, too - a lever. (You give them a 12" plastic ruler). Then you go inside to fap to horse-pron for a couple of hours, and when you go back out and find they've only moved that boulder eight feet, and broken the ruler, you call them incompetent.

If the PPA was the wrong organization, why didn't you make the correct organization? Once you get past its name, and read its mission statement, the PPA is pretty clear about its purpose. It's a lobbying organization trying to legalize poker. It seems like you are blaming them for being what they said they were, rather than the organization you want but never, even now, articulated.

Who are these mythical elite 1% and how have they benefited?

Next time, take 4 hours to compose your post, and then sit on it for a couple days. Then delete it.

This is exactly right.

How much of the non-poker-playing public heard the quadjacks show? Don't you realize that the pros with the large public followings (the ones most likely to be under contract to a site) have been given legal advice to say nothing whatsoever?

Despite that, we have some who showed support in a way that complied with the advice: Daniel letting every one know he was playing in public, and Barry playing play money games

I am sure the PPA would have welcomed any talented volunteers that came forward over the past years to help be that public voice of poker.

Thanks for not just being a critic but actually making well-intended suggestions.

Rather, they got in bed with the wrong big money interests.

If you feel this way feel free to post comments in then forums linked above, I doubt it's much harder than posting here. Well actually I know it's not because I have been posting on the forums myself.

"I wish the PA had accomplished more."

What is the difference between this statement and yours? Why is yours more appropriate?

"Should" imples a moral imperative, or possibly indicates you have a sense of entitlement.

What exactly was it that was in their power to do, but that, through negligence, they failed to do?

Why did they have an obligation to do it?

OMFG. Best post since BF AINEC.

I totally agree that no one besides poker players listen to quadjacks.I also agree that sadly enough you won't see many sponsored pros stepping forward, even though online poker has provided them a great living. But I also feel there are plenty of very, very smart well spoken voices in the poker world that would step forward. These players may not know what needs to be done, but if given a voice may state our case very well. Greg Raymer, Phil Galfond, Dan Harrington, David Sklansky, Todd Terry, and Phil Helmuth are just a few players some of whom would be good spokes persons based on their celebrity, other based on their sheer intelligence and knowledge of the poker community. I feel it wouldn't be unproductive to reach out to these people but the attitude that they should step up seems very reactive not proactive. It seems like a PPA sponsored thread asking for help would be cheap and could gain momentum.

Well they seem to have been doing a bang-up job over the last week haven't they?

If somehow Stars and Tilt and whoever else(pros, websites, etc.) raised money and were able to buy some advertising during Super Bowl that would be great. Make a funny commercial that gets people heated about how the govt has taken freedom away from us. Seeing all the brilliant minds at work in some of these photoshop threads has me thinking all of poker could come together and make something like this happen. Defenitely would be a great commercial.

Great things like that don't happen anymore in this country. Where you been? The 60's bro