The biggest joke played on us all...the PPA! - Page 21 - Poker News

oldschool · 04-24-2011, 12:16 PM

I like to see some of the organization attempts from some of the big critics here. If you've got something good in the works, I may join up with you. Anything?

Skallagrim · 04-24-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OklaHustler

^^^^^^THIS, since grange95 put the legal defense of the PPA to the mat Skall has apparently given up answering serious questions to why we shouldnt feel as we do.....

I am giving up answering questions in this thread. I am giving it up because it simply does no good. If I fight with posters I am unprofessional, if I don't fight with posters and try and generate unity, I am a wimp. I answer questions and get asked the same questions again. I post facts and the facts are ignored. One anonymous lawyer who has never tried to help the legal situation himself posts a critique and it is accepted as the be all and end all of legal analysis simply because it makes the PPA look bad. So be it. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn what any one thinks of me personally. I am just a simple player who has tried to do what he could to better the legal situation of poker players - I have no personal stake in this fight beyond that.

I intend to continue to my efforts, but it is clear to me that this is not the place to devote any more time. Minds are already made up and what effort I as one person can provide is clearly better used elsewhere.

So, say what you want, think what you want. Despite this thread there are still hundreds of thousands of poker players who want to work with the PPA and try and improve both the PPA and our effort to change the law. So that is who I will work with.

The rest of you can just continue to bitch and moan in this thread, essentially making yourself (thankfully) irrelevant to poker's future, or you can go and do something without the PPA.

To those who want to work with me, you know where to find me.

Good luck to all.

Skallagrim

illphillllllll · 04-24-2011, 12:48 PM

not sure what some of the posters here want, the PPA is obviously on our side. some seem to think they can single handedly change what the DOJ has done. what does OP want, the PPA to make the DOJ an offer they can't refuse ala vito corleone. posts like this are doing more harm then good imo.

Gap23Razor · 04-24-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skallagrim

LOL, good job.

It is impossible to write a post of this length with more false facts and erroneous conclusions than this one has.

Skallagrim

Oh no, it's very easy to write that when one has your organization for inspiration.

simply stated, your organization's results FOR THE PLAYERS have not met the promises TO THE PLAYERS

MyTurn2Raise · 04-24-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skallagrim

The vast majority of the PPA's funds pay for the PPA's lobbying efforts in D.C. and some state capitols. Lobbying is not cheap. And before anyone says it is a waste perhaps you would take a closer look. No one gets anything in DC without a lobbyist.

Also, the PPA hires a well respected DC firm to facilitate interaction with the media. The firm specializes in doing that for its clients.

But I am beginning to think that facts are not particularly important here.

Skallagrim

which is why your tactics were dumb and naive from the start

should have been trying to win in the courts rather than waste time lobbying

idk, perhaps you could have had players in states with friendly laws just play online poker in front of the state legislature building (or at the Starbucks across the street) and dared someone to arrest the player. Then, pursue the legal battle that would ensue.

Not as much money in the trough for that sort of tactic. That tactic requires results as well rather than pissing in the wind forever.

Nick Rivers · 04-24-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skallagrim

I am giving up answering questions in this thread. I am giving it up because it simply does no good. If I fight with posters I am unprofessional, if I don't fight with posters and try and generate unity, I am a wimp. I answer questions and get asked the same questions again. I post facts and the facts are ignored. One anonymous lawyer who has never tried to help the legal situation himself posts a critique and it is accepted as the be all and end all of legal analysis simply because it makes the PPA look bad. So be it. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn what any one thinks of me personally. I am just a simple player who has tried to do what he could to better the legal situation of poker players - I have no personal stake in this fight beyond that.

These are the inevitable consequences of defending the indefensible.

bigtex21 · 04-24-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo6911

I am curious what kind of salary D'Amato is pulling from the PPA.

$380,000 in 2009 not salary but paid as a lobbyist. Last years records not available , 5 paid employees made $518,000 and board member fees $250,000

sba9630 · 04-24-2011, 03:19 PM

Lobbying Ideas Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_publius

Since I work on the Hill, I feel like I should chime in here.

You can buy different levels of representation. 30K will get you something very different from 1M/year commitment.

Picking representation is both an art and a science. People that have a record of getting things done are not cheap, and they are pretty selective. You can expect none of them to send you mass email updates on which legislators they got to do what - which is the biggest misguided gripe against PPA. Such info is strictly internal and private.

I am not intimately familiar with PPA, but I can tell you that they don't really really have much of a presense on the Hill. This could be because I'm on the GOP side, or because their involvement is 'above my paygrade' if you will and I don't hear about it because it's at such a high level.

That said, if you guys are serious, the first thing you should do is research PPA first. Get one of your trusted representatives to fly down and check things out. In other words, talk of starting a new org is premature without first examining PPA and what you belive might be its shortcomings.

Lastly, while I do not know whether PPA is doing a good job or a bad job, I think they should be doing 2 things that they do not appear to be doing currently;

-More higher individual donor acquisition and babysitting. If they had a high contributor club with special events/'briefings'/etc, they could bring in a nice bundle of extra cash and diffuse most of the sentiment expressed in this thread. They are supposed to be about online poker yet their online presense - here and otherwise - is abysmal.

-They should consider starting a PAC and also start bundling contributions in target races. This - more than anything - would get them more presense and influence on the Hill.

So that's my take on it. Idenfity your biggest specific gripes with PPA and talk to them first. And by 'talk', I don't mean calling them out in some 2+2 thread. If you can back up the talk with sizable contributions, they are likely more than willing to listen.

LouKadeez · 04-24-2011, 03:28 PM

Anything that the self serving Wendeen Eolis in involved with has to be crap.

doctesseractyl · 04-24-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschool

I like to see some of the organization attempts from some of the big critics here. If you've got something good in the works, I may join up with you. Anything?

I have the will, desire, and some plans... I think if 50 critics can band together with me, I'd love to try and start an alternative to the PPA. It could complement the PPA and be more organic, focusing on Machiavellian intelligence & creative solutions. Of course, Grange95 must be willing to do this with me along with several other sensible critics who can intelligently understand why the PPA failed. Black Friday may spur a better movement than the PPA, and maybe this might be the one? I still believe anything's possible...

icracknuts · 04-24-2011, 06:07 PM

what are all the haters of the ppa doing for poker?

Instead of reaming people who are trying to help....go out and do something yourself.

LeapFrog · 04-24-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icracknuts

what are all the haters of the ppa doing for poker?

Instead of reaming people who are trying to help....go out and do something yourself.

voicing criticism of an organization that one may feel hasn't lived up to its potential is actually beneficial. DUCY?

LetsGambool · 04-24-2011, 09:49 PM

I dont get why people are beating the **** of Skall so much on a personal level. Im frustrated with some of the PPA's strategic choices, search my post history, you'll find plenty of criticism.

Not sure why Skall is getting so much of the heat though. He joined the board recently, so he's not responsible for most of the strategic direction of the organization. He put together the litigation network himself and brought it to the PPA. That's been arguably the most successful part of the entire PPA organization. Yeah, its not a perfect track record, but he hasn't been running around trying to manufacture cases to take poker to court, he's fought fights when they need fighting.

The worst case we've brought strategically, IMHO, was Rousso vs Washington. Skall didnt initiate that case and didnt drive PPA's overall WA strategy (which, again IMHO, is where the PPA has made its biggest mistakes with hindsight).

For all the crap he's taken about his optimistic views on winning in the courts, he's never claimed litigation was more than a stop gap strategy at best.

Beat the **** out of PPA strategy or disagree with Skall's opinion all you want, lord knows the organization needs to make some changes, but beating on Skall personally like this is complete bull****. He's not getting rich off of this, he doesn't have some ulterior motive, and he doesnt deserve to be pissed all over for what has happened or even for mistakes the PPA as a whole has made.

What satisfaction are you getting from pissing all over someone who has given a ton of time and effort to helping poker players legally?

Parasitic Reign · 04-24-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icracknuts

what are all the haters of the ppa doing for poker?

Instead of reaming people who are trying to help....go out and do something yourself.

They do nothing but troll the internet, wasting their time.

bigtex21 · 04-24-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasitic Reign

They do nothing but troll the internet, wasting their time.

I think people are pissed about not being to play Internet poker and blaming an organization that most did not donate to or volunteer time to. As long as they could play they were happy and now they are not.