Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > News, Views, and Gossip

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-2009, 02:50 PM   #1
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,214
Heart The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

I was traveling with one the best all-around gamblers in Texas, when it came to cheating, playing, booking, prop bets, golf, pistol shooting,dice. In the Cadillac going from West to East Texas, he had a shot-gun, rifle, .38 caliber snub nose, and a .22 caliber semi-automatic. Sand was going to meet his old friend from Dallas, Johnny Moss.

Sand's long-term friend stopped us on the dirt road up to a gambling joint outside Lufkin, Texas. The two Cadillacs pulled along side each other. "Those big spot dice are all right. Edge work." he said. That meant the edges of the dice were shaved to give the faders a five per cent edge, rather than the one point four per cent that square dice afforded.

There was an open shoot and fade dice game, and an open no-limit, seven-five draw low-ball game. That meant anybody off the road big enough to carry money would get played with. I faded a few bets on my short bankroll, and lost. Sand faded and played in the big low ball game. They played with stacks of paper currency. There was a lot of moving in. However, it was a square, honest game.

We went to some horse races with no betting window. You just bet with anyone standing on the rail. Sand laughed at me because I blew some dough on a "two-horsed race." He said I was the only one in East Texas to bet on the loser. I faded dice in this old barn. Then we went on to Longview, Texas for an Elk's Night Stag, with lots of gambling. I played seven card stud, five-dollar limit, and got cheated with an overhand stack. Sand let me get cheated as part of "your education."

There were five dice tables, and the dice ran to the shooters big time.

The big poker game was upstairs. I sat up high on a shoeshine stand and watched what was mostly a duel between Johnny Moss and Sarge Ferris. Both were later inducted into the Poker Hall of Fame. That was the one and only time I ever saw razz being played by professional road gamblers. The two games you saw everywhere in Texas were Texas Hold 'em and Seven-Five low ball.

The razz game was full with big stacks of paper money in front of some of the players. Sarge and Johnny were the only really aggressive players, moving in when they were ahead or even. Other players I knew in the game were Pat Renfro, who had been Johnny Moss's partner as early as 1928, and Sand. With the biggest bankroll, Sand had staked Johnny Moss and Pat Renfro. He quit the game. Back then, by custom, no one would watch a big game, unless they were waiting for a seat. Since I was with Sand, I was fine.

Sand was kind of famous because he was busted running a large dice game, with a full layout, at the Democratic Convention in Oklahoma City. 52 or 56. He had on a delegate's badge. An AP wire service story with pictures showed his Cadillac trunk with boxes of dice, and a dice shaving machine. It was in newspapers all over the country.

I was twenty and had never seen anyone slink big stacks of money like that. There were $1000 dollar bills and $500 dollar bills in some stacks, so it was hard to estimate how much was in front of folks. Johnny Moss and Sarge were trash talking and challenging each other in a certain way. They were dominating the game, and the conversation. When a gambler would get busted, he and pals would whisper in the corner, pool their money, and get back in. During a long night, many seemed to get busted. The minimum buy-in of $500 didn't have much meaning. Moss got off big loser, which meant Sand made pull-outs to get him back in action. If one guy was staking another, and both were in the game, nobody cared.

Along about sunrise, Moss ended up with a big stack, and they made money for the night. I wasn't around while they cut up.

I heard, but am not sure, that razz was Sarge Ferris' road game. Johnny Moss often said a gambler should be able to play any game. Sarge had insisted on razz in Longview. I also heard it was Sarge Ferris that introduced razz to Las Vegas.

Sand had been friends forever around Dallas with Johnny Moss, Benny Binion, and Titanic Thompson. Johnny, Benny, and Sand lived into their eighties and remained close friends.

Sand never attended the World Series of Poker. Benny Binion told him the IRS and the FBI were "on the rail."

Johnny Hughes

Last edited by Johnny Hughes; 06-24-2009 at 03:05 PM.
Johnny Hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 02:54 PM   #2
old hand
 
YouKnowWho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Desperately trying to reach 2300 :(
Posts: 1,881
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Good story, fun to read
YouKnowWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 03:21 PM   #3
journeyman
 
pimp_named_ak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 373
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

What is seven-five lowball? Is it the same as deuce to seven lowball?
pimp_named_ak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 03:29 PM   #4
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 226
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Quote:
Originally Posted by pimp_named_ak View Post
What is seven-five lowball? Is it the same as deuce to seven lowball?
Wondering this one myself...guess I gotta quit being lazy & google it.

Good read btw...
JoeyBishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 03:37 PM   #5
lazy degen
 
TheCanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Flippin
Posts: 7,053
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

I always love seeing a Johnny Hughes thread.

Great read as always, I appreciate it you writing it.
TheCanoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 03:48 PM   #6
Possibly Too Level Headed
 
adanthar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Now with 100% more poker
Posts: 18,563
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

no limit razz?

somebody make a time machine and put me in that game TIA
adanthar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 03:50 PM   #7
adept
 
As2s3s4s5s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chasing EV naked down the street...
Posts: 966
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

From wikipedia:

Quote:
Deuce-to-seven low: Also called 7-5 low, since the lowest possible hand is 7-5-4-3-2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowball_(poker)
As2s3s4s5s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 08:40 PM   #8
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,214
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Thanks, folks.
Johnny Hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:06 PM   #9
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 165
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

what is making "pull-outs" Mr. Hughes?
degeneratum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:25 PM   #10
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 142
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

[] good story

Can I get 5 minutes of my life back pls?
23467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 11:38 PM   #11
Pooh-Bah
 
Parlay Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,708
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Deuce to seven razz is a better game than the standard ace to five that gets played more regularly
Parlay Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 12:48 AM   #12
Pooh-Bah
 
springsteen87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,483
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Johnny Hughes threads always deliver
springsteen87 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 01:18 AM   #13
Pooh-Bah
 
Oski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Anti-Vermin Seed
Posts: 4,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by degeneratum View Post
what is making "pull-outs" Mr. Hughes?
I would guess that means that one player would rathole part of his stack in order to provide a stake to one of his busto buddies.
Oski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 02:59 AM   #14
veteran
 
Jourdain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,454
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Great story, thx Johnny
Jourdain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2009, 03:29 AM   #15
adept
 
skoldpadda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 710
Re: The Big Razz Game: 1959. Johnny Moss versus Sarge Ferris

Cool story; thank you for sharing. Please post more!
skoldpadda is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2009, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
Message Boards and Forums Directory