No offense, but you guys sound pretty naive. Even if you would eventually win the case, it's going to take a lot of time and it's not going to be fun.

Also, I read in this pretty boring & overpriced book: http://uitgeverij.larcier.com/titres...-internet.html that each European country can come up with it's own gambling regulation. And there are some excuses like "protecting the people" which allow countries to enforce a state monopoly and sort of ignoring the European trade laws. But only when the main objective is clearly player protection and not to make a quick buck. (I don't remember the exact details, but it's something like that)

Just for the record: I'm not a fan of the Belgian gaming commission, but I'd do a a little more research before taking them to court

In "reacties" you can find a related discussion in dutch: http://nl.pokerstrategy.com/news/wor...tgeving_51820/

I'm just saying it's not such a clear case as you might think.

^^ I agree, and the fact that France is doing this for a couple of years already gives me the feeling you won't win the case unless you will put a LOT of effort and money in it, and even then it's doubtfull.

And tbh, I don't even see the point in playing on "illegal" sites if you're not a pro, what sites would you play on anyway? Since stars and iPoker are legal, and basicly all other sites have crappy software and very low traffic, I really don't understand why you would even take the risk...
Also, it looks like occasional players won't have to pay taxes(let's hope so).

Btw, even if you think you can win the case and you win a lot of money on some illegal site, you still have to pay taxes.

I am not sure that I understand your reasoning on this matter, how is appealing an unjust ruling naive? Especially in Belgium, where you get convicted by a court (correctioneel) that doesn't even has to motivate it's ruling.

I'm not an expert on law, but if you win a case, isn't the losing party the one paying the legal costs? Wouldn't it also be possible to demand money from them for taking away your earnings (broodroof)? What about things like 'laster en eerroof' ? The comment on it "not being fun" is entirely subjective I guess. It would personally please me a lot winning a case like this against the Belgian gaming commission, essentially proving their incompetence in legal matters.

Hopefully and probably this never happens. I'm just saying that if someone gets fined for a considerable amount, the discrepancy between Belgian law and EU law could be exploited and potentially turned into a monetary advantage.

Agreed.

Right.

From my point of view, the whole "protecting the people" argument they keep throwing around doesn't make all that much sense. It's just a convenient way for them to abuse common misconceptions about the game to set up a structure which will net them the most profit.

None of the fish like to lose money. The vast majority of them goof around a couple of times and quit without losing their livelihoods or anything close to it. There really isn't anyone to protect, apart from maybe a handful, which imo, doesn't justify taking "protective" measures to the detriment of by far the largest group. Ofcourse they like to spin the story and ramble on about how it's their duty to protect the people. The people can think for themselves.

The tax rate they will shove under our noses will clearly show what their main concern is. Instead of protecting their precious people, they will likely wipe out all those who can grind out a modest living and those who play recreationally but will be discouraged by the small amount of $$ they have left after spending their time on it. Why? For money and nothing else. Ofcourse that's their main concern. They're not regulating it because they think it's the right, progressive or fair thing to do.

It's a gray area with very strong arguments on both sides. From my perspective, we the players and the sites who won't get a license, are still pretty far ahead though. I'm liking the odds.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying I will or even want to go to court over this, but under certain circumstances, I would seriously consider it.

I used "naive" because it's probably not such an easy autowin case as you guys seem to think.

Don't get me wrong, I also think it's just about the extra revenue. But the gaming commission can legally hide behind player protection etc ...

Are some of you guys already banned on sites?

Illegal sites don't ban obv.

There are pokersites and organisations that already went to Europe. Either it's pending or they got told it's ok because of playerprotection.
There needs to be player protection because you can access online slots or whatever too, which has more people addicted to it. Poker falling under gambling comes in handy because of taxes, you need to take the downside with it.
and are you seriously whining about professionals having to pay taxes? It's your job, pay your ****ing taxes. If I don't make enough money after taxes from my job, I look out for another job, I'm not going to whine that I could make a decent living if I didn't have to pay taxes.
We have legal online poker, taxfree for occasional players, likely all big networks available in the future, with a small loss in value. Was it better when it was illegal and nobody cared: Yes. Should we be happy or sad right now? I don't know, ask an American.

'Player protection' is pure hypocrisy. Are alcoholic or smoking addicts 'protected' when they try to buy their stuff in the supermarket? Does the majority of the people want to be 'protected' by their government. If China censures their internet it's also for the 'protection' of their people. I don't need/want such protection, and never asked for it or voted for parties introducing that protection, yet I'm gonna be affected.

It's not a disaster for a poker pro to be taxed just like anyone else, in most countries. but in the country with the highest taxrate it is a disaster, and it's totally fine to 'whine' about it (as a poker pro in Belgium you're gonna pay more % to taxes than 99.9% of all other poker pro's)

Your last statement about America is so populistic. Are you happy with the state of the roads here because somewhere deep in Africa there is road with even deeper holes?

which is the same as any other job in belgium/compared to rest of the world?

That's how the system works. I didn't vote for a lot of stuff, but yet it happened anyway.
The 'disaster' is just as bad for anyone else in our country. Everyone has to pay those high taxes. It doesn't matter if you play poker, trade stocks, have a business or flip burgers. You could discuss the high taxrates, but this is a pokerforum, there are plenty of places to discuss politics.

I was just referring to America to say it could have gone a lot worse. Look at other countries that legalized poker.

are 50K€+ jobs taxed ~45-50% in other countries ?

His point was that every 50k+ job in Belgium is heavily taxed. There is no reason poker should be different from other jobs.
Of course I agree taxes are very high here, but if you don't like it you should move to another country. If poker is your job, you'll have to pay the same taxes as in an other job which seems pretty normal to me.

There are other options, he could stay and try to destroy Belgium for one.

Sooner or later the Flemish will shake off their slave mentality and create a Flemish republic.