Tomorrow there is a charity tournament called Ante up for Autism (http://www.anteupforautism.org/) hosted by Jenny McCarthy and Lance Armstrong. While it may seem like a good idea to have a charity poker tournament for the Autism cause, this particular movement detracts from real autism charities.
I am an md/phd student and have been following this nominal "link" between vaccines and autism, and let me just say that there is none. Jenny McCarthy, with her many recent appearances on CNN, has been begging mothers not to have their kids vaccinated, or as she puts it, make them have a "safer" vaccine schedule. She believes its all a big pharma conspiracy to make money to have everyone vaccinated, and demands the removal of "toxins" from vaccines etc etc etc, a typical uneducated feeling that the vague toxins must be the root of diseases, and that natural products are better.
This idea that vaccines cause autism comes from several places, but a couple of the main places are that:
1. children are vaccinated around the time that autism can be first diagnosed, so when parents hear that vaccines can cause autism, they recall that "hey, my kid started having symptoms right after their vaccination..so it must have caused it." (which is just a correlation)
2. a scientific paper (that has been since retracted by most of the authors) claimed there may be a link between autism and the measles virus. this has since been shown to be not the case in subsequent studies. (ill get to sources in a later post if people request it.)
3. the rise in autism to "epidemic" proportions. this is in all likelyhood an awareness bias. I too remember growing up in the 80s and 90s and not really ever hearing about autism, except for rain man. but nowadays, everyone has heard of autism. Doctors are definitely more aware of it and are more able to diagnose a set of behaviors as part of the autism spectrum, whereas previousl it may have been diagnosed as mentally challenged etc.

This particular event subscribes to the idea that autism can be cured by diet and that vaccines can cause autism, and therefore is not a worthwile charity as they detract from more reasonable research endeavors. So I implore any poker player, pro or otherwise, not to contribute to this cause, and do some research to find better charities. (kenna james, marcel luske, amir vahedi, pamela brunson, michelle lau, kristi blakely...im looking at you.)

is this like anti-spam?

:superconfused:

OP STFU, it's a charity for crying out loud, if you don't like it then you don't have to contribute to it. But for you to sit here and say "because i don't agree with that type of reseach so don't contribute" is just stupid.

Way to encourage people NOT to donate to something by bringing it up.

FWIW I agree with OP that the vaccine theory is the most ******ed **** I've ever heard. In poker terms, it's like getting knocked out of the WSOP Main Event on a hand where you had AA, and blaming your dismissal on the fact that you chose to play AA.

I can't believe people are flaming this guy. If what OP says is true, this charity is encouraging people not to have their kids vaccinated. That course of action is going to harm far more children than it helps. If a "charity" claimed you could cure diabetes by bloodletting, would you want to give them money so they could get their message out and cut up some diabetics? It's a charity after all.

I can't speak for the veracity of OPs claims about the charity, but if he's true there's no reason to give money to a group that will end up hurting people.

Why would I play poker against people with autism. Seems very -ev to me. Havent you seen Rainman. "We're counting cards, counting cards..."

I am a high functioning autistic myself. However, there are families that suffer greatly from autism and research is greatly needed to be sure, that is not in question. I know a great deal about the issue at hand, and I guess I should not be surprised that folks that are not at all informed are flaming about your post despite your adroit explanation. When you give money to people that do junk science you not only fund the junk, you rob better charities and in this case... murder children.

I have a utilitarian philosophical view a la Peter Singer. Let me explain, If you take an MMR vaccine away from a child and that child dies of Measels, Mumps, or Rubella, I feel that is the same as my taking out my .45 and blowing the kids head off. These people are doing just that. Children are dying for the first time in generations from preventable disease because these ignorant people are foolish can't comprehend the math and science. There is NO link to autism, and I would vigorously argue my life is somewhat better than death to begin with.

The original poster makes a beautiful point about how memory theory leads people to make the mistake, that poker players should understand. It is the same reason bad players limp with AK early. It's because instead of doing the correct play their memory does not work like videotape and they recall bad beats better than they should and don't bet to protect their hand, and wind up having it cost them money overall than necessary. In poker you can lose a buy-in or even a bankroll, in this game the stakes are higher. People SHOULD consider the stewardship of their donations gravely and seriously in this case especially. Perhaps they should even consider attending to the fact that 30K children starve every day before we give more money to animal charities...just a thought.

Please ladies and gentlemen, consider consequences and you will be a more responsible citizen, and likely a better player.

In my limited research on the topic I've come to understand that the suspect is the mercury in the vaccine that keeps it fresh, not the vaccine itself.

Wow Kentucky Buddha, you should really do an "Ask an autistic" thread in OOT (Other Other Topics forum). That would be fascinating.

By coincidence I saw all this Jenny McCarthy stuff and asked 2p2er lacky, an STTFer I respect immensely who has 2 autistic kids, his thoughts.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...8/#post6406106

Just to note, the reason I made my comment is that I didn't know of the event in question. While I agree with OP's point, directing people to the place in question draws even more people that may be more influenced to donate to their efforts and not to more standard organizations to fight autism.


I'll just throw in "wat" to my own post to save others the trouble.

Google what happened to the joke of a doctor that started this over here (UK) Andrew Wakefield. Now he's over in the US with his quackery and is under investigation by the General Medical Council. No offence but Americans seem to love their pseudo science science even more than we do. So OP is right.

I'm not sure anyone should be trusting Lance Armstrong with any test results either...

Not very NVG worthy though!

In my limited research on the topic ive come to understand that the vast majority of the medical community do not believe anything in the vaccines cause autism and that its dangerous to go around claiming that they do for the simple fact that parents will naturally have a gut reaction and do what they can to keep their kids safe but in doing so they are leaving them open to many very serious diseases that definitely do exist and definitely can be stopped by vaccination.

Supporting someone who goes around spouting medical advice with no medical training and ignoring the general consensus of the medical community feels like a bad idea to me.

When people like that rotten **** McCarthy misuse science for whatever reason (dogmatic ignorance, bias due to personal experience, etc) it should make you angry. It's your goddamn duty to be upset with all forms of such ****ism.

When there are no scientific evidence that supports a claim, it's not much of a claim, is it? And when the alternative is so obviously bad, you're a zombie for agreeing with her, aren't you?

According to a report (sorry, I didn't find the source - sucks, I know), at least 86.6% of a population needs to be vaccinated against the measles in order to prevent an epidemy. That is, if we use the optimistic model, ie infected people don't pass the disease on to a whole lot of people.

I admire your ability to read that and immediately think that the ideas should have been framed much better. And have nothing whatever to say about the substance. Says a great deal about YOU I think.
However, that said I would have loved to have been able to to do a re-write! It was god awful, but I was annoyed. I will work on it...thanks for the castigation.

That wasn't much better! LOL In my defense, I want it known I am not in great shape, and I just chopped down a tree with an axe, and I don't have blood flowing to my pre-frontal cortex at an ordinary rate. I was doing well for anyone I think! LOL

you're welcome

I myself am a high functioning *******

LOL Well done! All the best!

Is it really a charity if it's not helping?

LMAO!

What are you laughing at?

Autism has only been defined clinically for a rather short period. You know what happens when a problem goes from being vaguely defined to much less vaguely defined?

The number of cases increases.

You're referring to the thimerosol which I may not have spelled correctly but which a) hasn't been shown to cause dick, b) isn't in the vaccines anymore, and c) hasn't been for years.

All the science says vaccines don't cause autism and do prevent other diseases. Diseases that don't sound like they're a problem now because we're all immunized against them.

Make no mistake, if you support Jenny McCarthy in this absurd crusade you're killing children. It's not immediate and you won't know their names and see bloody pictures but when fewer kids are vaccinated more get sick and more die.

OP is right and his point is at least somewhat relevant given that this is ostensibly a poker forum. there is definitely a net negative benefit to society by supporting this 'charity' so saying something is better than smugly remaining silent.

Hello everyone,

This is my first charity event for TACA. Based on their website, TACA's mission statement & the research I've done on the internet, it seems like a worthwhile charity to me.


This thread addresses a vaccine controversy...which I am not familiar with and don't want to get into a debate over. TACA does state they are NOT anti-vaccine. There is also much more to TACA than their stance on vaccines. See for yourself:





Please go to the website and review what TACA is all about before you flame me!

Thanks and y'all have a great day!

Pam Brunson

I want to say that the folks that are involved in the charity to include Ms. Brunson, deserve to be thanked. Those folks have said they are not anti-vaccine. But they say that until we get a vaccine they are convinced is safe to gamble on not having the MMR. The negative implied odds on that play is death for thousands. They are not bad people at all!! They are just people that are making a mistake with very serious consequences. I think we have all made mistakes, we just can't keep making them. I think we especially can't afford it when it's someone else that has to pay when we are loser!!

I completely agree with OP. After browsing their site for a bit, it is clear they are anti-vaccine without coming out and saying it. They talk about doctors intimidating patients into vaccination, say things like "there are as many studies showing vaccines don't cause autism as there are that show they do" (implying the number is equal and the jury is out, as opposed to the actual case that a huge majority of the medical community thinks the case is closed and the discussion is silly), and recommending complex vaccine protocols that most people would find too complex or expensive to follow, and instead not have their children vaccinated. For instance they recommend tests for immunity before follow up or booster doses. A quick check put the cost of the MMR titer at $125 (and this is far from the only vaccine). For poor of lower middle class people, this will basically deter them from getting the vaccine in the first place (as the vaccine will probably be free or covered by insurance, and the titer probably won't AFAIK). Also, the arguement that vaccines are just a way for doctors and pharma companies to make money is silly (specifically in the case of doctors). Most of the common vaccines cost almost nothing. From their website, the CDC's cost for an MMR vaccine is about $8 per dose. Doctors simply aren't making a living pushing $8 vaccines on people. There is much more money to be made by an individual doctor coming out with a contrary opinion and using it to market their alternatives to unwitting laymen.

For comparision, here is Autism Speak's official statement on vaccination, which is much more fair and responsible:

Statement on Vaccine Research and Safety

Autism Speaks is committed to the health and well-being of all children. As such, we support the programs that ensure the public health, including an effective and safe immunization program designed to prevent major diseases. Immunization programs have been very effective in reducing mortality, morbidity and costs associated with common childhood diseases. Today's parents no longer need to worry that once dreaded diseases like polio and smallpox could be threats to their children.

Public trust in immunization programs must be protected. Thus it is critical that we take steps now to do all we can to affirm the public confidence in the safety of vaccines.

Autism Speaks is committed to actively supporting research to find answers to the following questions;


Are there adverse events from vaccines that impact neurodevelopment over time?


Are common adverse events occurring more frequently than before? If so, what changes have occurred and why?


Does the use of combination vaccines or the practice of giving several vaccinations in one day confer increase risk for adverse events?


Are there subgroups in the general population that exhibit more adverse events than others?
In order to answer these challenging and complicated questions, Autism Speaks is mobilizing the scientific community and engaging broad scientific expertise, including experts in genetics, neuroscience, and immunology. We are working diligently with officials in our government to address the questions that parents have through both basic and clinical research. We believe this to be the most effective course of action toward creating meaningful change.