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Old 11-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #1
TenJackOfClubs
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[x] Online Poker is Dead

I just witnessed a friend of mine 8 tabling 1/2 on stars using a new HUD. It uses your PT stats to create an accurate range for your opponent. It gives you a text output line that you can copy paste into pokerstove.

What this means is that any monkey could play "text book" poker if he is able to learn preflop strat and copy paste.

He said he got the program from a friend of his at school OVER THE SUMMER.

I will not give you his screenname, or the name of the program, but I have searched online and I cannot find it (which is good). As far as I know it is a one of a kind program.

I will never play a hand of poker online ever again.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #2
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

I have a poker tracking program on my computer. Im not going to tell you the name of it though.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:03 AM   #3
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Please ban.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:06 AM   #4
CloseTwin
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

This program could easily exist, but it's not necessarily an accurate hand range. This program has to assume one specific range for all opponents.

I.E. If someone only ever opens one hand, this program will be pretty sure it's aces. If someone opens the percentage equivalent of 2 hands, it's a good guess that it's AA and KK, although it might be AK. Alternatively, it might be a player who only waits for AA but plays a suited connector once in awhile out of boredom.

I assume a homebrew program is not sophisticated enough to take into account all past showdowns and weight the range accordingly. It might make use of the data, but that data itself does not accurately reflect opening ranges, because strong hands get shown down more often than weak ones. This is just one troublesome problem with assuming a range.

Basically, people will be getting the same thing a HUD offers. If they open 11%, plug that 11% into a program that'll display the top 11% of hands. The only possible difference is that this program will use showdown data, but again, will it treat that 86o open from the CO as a freak or assume that 86o is always a part of their range? Will the program assume they open trash hands like that 13% of the time they get dealt them?

I don't think it really changes anything.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:09 AM   #5
relderretep
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenJackOfClubs View Post
I just witnessed a friend of mine 8 tabling 1/2 on stars using a new HUD. It uses your PT stats to create an accurate range for your opponent. It gives you a text output line that you can copy paste into pokerstove.

What this means is that any monkey could play "text book" poker if he is able to learn preflop strat and copy paste.

He said he got the program from a friend of his at school OVER THE SUMMER.

I will not give you his screenname, or the name of the program, but I have searched online and I cannot find it (which is good). As far as I know it is a one of a kind program.

I will never play a hand of poker online ever again.
[X] there will always be enough donks who wont use these programs and lose their money
[X] online poker is NOT dead
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:10 AM   #6
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

I have had the ability to do this relatively accurately for about 2 years. This isn't the only reason I win.

Its how you react to these ranges. Welcome to real poker...

i.e Maths

JT
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:13 AM   #7
TenJackOfClubs
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloseTwin View Post
This program could easily exist, but it's not necessarily an accurate hand range. This program has to assume one specific range for all opponents.

I.E. If someone only ever opens one hand, this program will be pretty sure it's aces. If someone opens the percentage equivalent of 2 hands, it's a good guess that it's AA and KK, although it might be AK. Alternatively, it might be a player who only waits for AA but plays a suited connector once in awhile out of boredom.

I assume a homebrew program is not sophisticated enough to take into account all past showdowns and weight the range accordingly. It might make use of the data, but that data itself does not accurately reflect opening ranges, because strong hands get shown down more often than weak ones. This is just one troublesome problem with assuming a range.

Basically, people will be getting the same thing a HUD offers. If they open 11%, plug that 11% into a program that'll display the top 11% of hands. The only possible difference is that this program will use showdown data, but again, will it treat that 86o open from the CO as a freak or assume that 86o is always a part of their range? Will the program assume they open trash hands like that 13% of the time they get dealt them?

I don't think it really changes anything.
I hope you are right, and I brought up alot of the same points, but how hard would it be for the programmer to weight hands that go to showdown 10x more then hands that don't?

I also brought up the fact that player's game's change over time, but how hard would it be to weight newer hands more than older hands?

The ranges it was giving where very long and exact. It wasn't simply stuff like AJ+, 88+. They seemed very specific, so they must be looking at showdown hands not just opening percentages.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:40 AM   #8
idk my bff jill
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

the sky is falling?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #9
plowking3777
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

bring it on... if someone thinks they can beat me using a computer program, i welcome them to try.

beating a program could be pretty easy if you know how the program calculates the correct move.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:01 AM   #10
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

What I hope will eventually happen is that sites will allow you to change your name often enough that these tracking programs cant keep a data base on you. These programs need a pretty good sample size to accurately pin you down. It's like Phil Laak wearing his disguise to a poker tournament.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:21 PM   #11
77vintage
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

[X] Seasoned players don't worry about this stuff, as it becomes second nature.
[ ] You play very well.
[ ] You're a champion.
[ ] Send you back to Russia.
[X] Do you feel my power, baby?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:36 PM   #12
MaMaLuLu
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

[x] Tony Guoga is horrible at poker
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:13 PM   #13
IheartLatex
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

[x] online poker is more than NLHE
[x] online poker still alive
i got a question for OP are you a winning player over a large sample or someone who blames the fact that he loses money due to any of the following points
a) you run bad
b) online players are just bots
c) online poker is rigged
d) every online player is a cr dc or stox member
maybe your just not very good

Last edited by IheartLatex; 11-21-2008 at 01:19 PM. Reason: meh
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:17 PM   #14
LoveDonkey
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

wut a tragic news for all of us... this is certain scare the $%#$ out of me. It is so unfair for most poker players here who spend day and night just try to improve the game in the "right" way.........
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:31 PM   #15
cking
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

give me 27mins and a PT database and i could give u a really accurate hand range for a set of players opening ranges from any position, its not very hard
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:37 PM   #16
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Something like this? Diebitter Hand Ranger.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:46 PM   #17
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

And to think I wasted thousands on the memoirs of aejones and the Rhapsody of Krantz
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:47 PM   #18
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRUDEFINDER View Post
What I hope will eventually happen is that sites will allow you to change your name often enough that these tracking programs cant keep a data base on you. These programs need a pretty good sample size to accurately pin you down. It's like Phil Laak wearing his disguise to a poker tournament.

This is wrong. Playing in ssnl you will see all types of randoms that you have no db on. With some fish it only take 30 hands. By 100 I have a good sense on most of anyones pre range and some PoF tendencies.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:05 PM   #19
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenJackOfClubs View Post

What this means is that any monkey could play "text book" poker if he is able to learn preflop strat and copy paste.
When did they stop dealing the other 5 cards? It's all preflop now?
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:12 PM   #20
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

so what your saying is...if you have a program telling you what to do then you can't lose right? lol

Variance = poker.

Bank Roll Management = Everything.

SuperUsers = the end of Online poker.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:42 PM   #21
donkeykong2
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

seems like it is too easy to sit at home at your computer and follow some relatively simple rules to make a lot of money. once a lot of people realize this, profits are going down and the shark population increases so much that it is no longer great to be shark.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:54 PM   #22
EGarrett
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenJackOfClubs View Post
I just witnessed a friend of mine 8 tabling 1/2 on stars using a new HUD. It uses your PT stats to create an accurate range for your opponent. It gives you a text output line that you can copy paste into pokerstove.

What this means is that any monkey could play "text book" poker if he is able to learn preflop strat and copy paste.
This is so exploitable that I don't know why anyone would feel threatened.

Quote:
He said he got the program from a friend of his at school OVER THE SUMMER.
...um, what's significant about him getting it over the summer?
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:10 PM   #23
jxi
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

[x] OP is a losing moran who doesn't understand that 200NL =/= online poker and doesnt understand how u could screw urself doin this if u dont pay attention to sample size for certain stats, not to mention that most ppl can see their own stats and aren't living on 1 level their whole life. besides, just cuz someone's 3bet range is, say 8% from 1 position, that doesn't actually tell u if they're raising with the "top 8%" that pokerstove gives u, which is 8% of total hands which have the highest hot and cold equity vs. a RANDOM hand (100% range), or whether its a super polarized idiot range

also, what do u think ppl use tracking programs/HUDs and pokerstove for anyways?

btw PT sucks
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:12 PM   #24
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Funny thing actually is that most of the small stakes grinders could play knowing their opponents' cards and still make the wrong play every ****ing time...
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:49 PM   #25
MasterLJ
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Re: [x] Online Poker is Dead

Let's see this HUD applied to heads up.
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