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Old 12-01-2010, 07:20 AM   #1
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Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

In a Bluff magazine article Illari Sahamies(Finnish) is quoted as saying “People are realistic in Finland, They(Fins) don’t believe so much in God or luck or magic… but the reason why there are so many good poker players among a population of only 5 million? I don’t know...I guess it’s a kind of miracle.”

It got me to thinking about religion in that part of the world and after looking up religious statistics in Sweden on Wikipedia I found this ,"Despite a high formal membership rate in the Church of Sweden, several studies have found Sweden to be one of the least religious countries in the world, with one of the highest levels of atheism. According to different studies, between 46% and 85% of Swedes do not believe in God."

Does lack of Religion in your culture and up bringing allow you to become more fearless at the tables? Does being brought up with a religious background disable and restrict you from being a world class poker player? Is there an inverse correlation between being devoted to your religious beliefs and success in poker?

Last edited by ArmenH; 12-01-2010 at 07:22 AM. Reason: wrong word usage
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:25 AM   #2
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

op believes in fairy tales
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:28 AM   #3
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

I don't think religion (or lack of it) plays much of a part in it - Scandinavia (cue debate about how Finland is not part of it) have very good social security where you almost can't go truly broke the way you can in other countries.

You and your family is still guaranteed food, a home, health care, high level education etc almost no matter how broke you are, so the fear of going broke, or losing a big amount of money, is not going to be as high in these countries. It's by no means fun to be broke, you'll have to go without a lot of stuff and make sacrifices on many levels, but it's not as big a crisis as it can be elsewhere.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:29 AM   #4
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Yeah I definitely think that as a culture they are tough people and more fearless so maybe this has something to do with it but definitely nothing to do with Religion, thats absurd. I'd say more than anything though that it is just how many players from there learn the game as everybody plays more aggressive so they learn aggression from the beginning and develop their skills around this.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:29 AM   #5
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

I think it's the strong social safety net and high taxes that make them more fearless and aggressive. The safety net means the consequences of being busto are lower, but the high taxes mean you really have to make a lot of money to buy nice things.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:30 AM   #6
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Vikings are aggressive
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:32 AM   #7
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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Vikings are aggressive
this... their great great great great great grandpa was beowulf n sht
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:36 AM   #8
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Is there any reason you think those things would be related?
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:37 AM   #9
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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between 46% and 85% of Swedes do not believe in God.
How many people did they ask? 12?
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:42 AM   #10
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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Is there any reason you think those things would be related?
What, fearlessness and religion?
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:48 AM   #11
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

*Generous loans grants a lot of spare time to students.
*Higher education for all. University or similar is like rare not attending.
*Less belief in superstition.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:50 AM   #12
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

I think one reason is that scandinavians love to compete in general (alot of the times versus eachother).

This in addition to economic stability has produced a lot of world class athletes and it might be a reason why many good and aggressive poker players come out of scandinavia.

That and the fact that it is cold as hell half of the time
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:51 AM   #13
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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this... their great great great great great grandpa was beowulf n sht
It was mostly the norwegians. The danes after that and then the swedes. The fins were never anything else but a farmer people getting sodomized by Sweden/Russia until they cooperated with the nazis and finally liberated themselves.

If anything, it's more of a starving alcoholic farmer culture. Very aggressive because little to lose that's in our blood. We've only had it good for 50 years.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:55 AM   #14
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

lol god

I dont know how the rest of europe is but i thought this was 2010, i mean i dont know anyone who would considered to be religous or believe in god or stuff like that.

But i dont think it has anything to do with the "fearless" play though
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:56 AM   #15
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Higher wages, easier to get a job = money has lesser value comparing to ppl from less wealthy countries.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:58 AM   #16
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

well, we dont believe in God here really, its all about Thor, Odin and so on. We still kill chickens, cows and sheeps to please our Gods. So we are used to being agro in life, so we do the same when we play poker...
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:19 AM   #17
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Viking gene
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:22 AM   #18
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

We sacrifice animals to ancient viking gods for the rungood.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:23 AM   #19
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

I think one of the possibilities is also just that the finnish winter is very cold and long compared to other countries, so we're more likely to stay indoors longer during that time = more time on PC = more likely to play a game like poker.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:25 AM   #20
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

1. op must be american (and yea lol americans)
2. what about those raping priests? to me it didnt seem they feared any consequences
3. lol religion
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:26 AM   #21
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Quote:
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Is there any reason you think those things would be related?
Do you mean apart from the completely obvious ones?

Poker is a game where logic and critical analysis (among other things) are rewarded with success. Religion is a game where critical analysis and the ability to challenge irrational conclusios is actively discouraged and in some cases forbidden.

In Poker, we see non-sensical lines and we remain sceptical of any information put to us; in Religion the same treatment would've got you burnt at the stake for being a heretic throughout history; now you're only threatened with eternal torture.

No you're right - no relationship at all :P
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:30 AM   #22
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?



off to grinding...
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:37 AM   #23
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

One must first lose the belief in god, in order to truely believe and achieve the godmode.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:37 AM   #24
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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Originally Posted by MinusEV View Post
I don't think religion (or lack of it) plays much of a part in it - Scandinavia (cue debate about how Finland is not part of it) have very good social security where you almost can't go truly broke the way you can in other countries.

You and your family is still guaranteed food, a home, health care, high level education etc almost no matter how broke you are, so the fear of going broke, or losing a big amount of money, is not going to be as high in these countries. It's by no means fun to be broke, you'll have to go without a lot of stuff and make sacrifices on many levels, but it's not as big a crisis as it can be elsewhere.
I'd say this is pretty accurate.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:48 AM   #25
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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lol god

I dont know how the rest of europe is but i thought this was 2010, i mean i dont know anyone who would considered to be religous or believe in god or stuff like that.

But i dont think it has anything to do with the "fearless" play though
No, obv you don't know how the rest of Europe is. And obv you don't know many people either.

And you didn't get why atheism would produce stronger players either. Not much you get in life is it? Din jävla fjant.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:07 AM   #26
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

COLD WINTERS --> BORED ---> AGRO


imo
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:17 AM   #27
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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It was mostly the norwegians. The danes after that and then the swedes. The fins were never anything else but a farmer people getting sodomized by Sweden/Russia until they cooperated with the nazis and finally liberated themselves.

If anything, it's more of a starving alcoholic farmer culture. Very aggressive because little to lose that's in our blood. We've only had it good for 50 years.
Haha, awesome
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:18 AM   #28
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

We gamble religulously!!
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:20 AM   #29
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

It's probably a combination of the wealthiness, the security around that you literary can not go broke and free education. And the viking genes of course, lol
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:21 AM   #30
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

And why are Dutch players the worst?
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:44 AM   #31
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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Yeah I definitely think that as a culture they are tough people and more fearless so maybe this has something to do with it but definitely nothing to do with Religion, thats absurd. I'd say more than anything though that it is just how many players from there learn the game as everybody plays more aggressive so they learn aggression from the beginning and develop their skills around this.
Apart from during World War 2.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:53 AM   #32
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Are Scandinavian players more fearless? What makes you think that?
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:56 AM   #33
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Its so damn expensive to drink in pubs and the winters are cold so they all sit at home playing online poker and drinking, clicking all in as often as possible and gambling with any gutshot for entertainment.

Its nothing to do with being a 'fearless people' in general. They are all boozey degens that love the gamble.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:57 AM   #34
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Sick cold country with invertive people that only talk when theyr drunk. When so many angry kids choose internet poker rather than going out, they take alot aggression into the pokers.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:00 AM   #35
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

i hate when people do this...but this will def. be a good thread. Thanks a bunch OP, i may just subscribe to my first thread.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:02 AM   #36
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Bluffing makes baby jesus cry
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:03 AM   #37
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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How many people did they ask? 12?
73% of all percentage statistics are made up on the spot
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:04 AM   #38
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

I think it as to do with taxes also because you got to win way more for it to actually mean something since most of your winnings are taken away by the gov.

also their risk of ruin is very small with all the social security there is
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:09 AM   #39
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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Originally Posted by WildStyle;23217317 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting**************23217 317******end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Apart from during World War 2.
You've never seen the stats from the winter war I take it
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:19 AM   #40
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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I think it as to do with taxes also because you got to win way more for it to actually mean something since most of your winnings are taken away by the gov.

also their risk of ruin is very small with all the social security there is
Honestly agression/fearless have nothing to do with taxes/social security or winter...

I can only talk about Fins side but overall Fins are very temperament and relentless. It's all about personality/history.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:22 AM   #41
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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In a Bluff magazine article Illari Sahamies(Finnish) is quoted as saying “People are realistic in Finland, They(Fins) don’t believe so much in God or luck or magic… but the reason why there are so many good poker players among a population of only 5 million? I don’t know...I guess it’s a kind of miracle.”

It got me to thinking about religion in that part of the world and after looking up religious statistics in Sweden on Wikipedia I found this ,"Despite a high formal membership rate in the Church of Sweden, several studies have found Sweden to be one of the least religious countries in the world, with one of the highest levels of atheism. According to different studies, between 46% and 85% of Swedes do not believe in God."

Does lack of Religion in your culture and up bringing allow you to become more fearless at the tables? Does being brought up with a religious background disable and restrict you from being a world class poker player? Is there an inverse correlation between being devoted to your religious beliefs and success in poker?
Its meaningless, really. Mostly comes down to knowledge in poker, as knowledge is power. Than, its controlling your emotions, and playing your best at ALL times. Then, you have some luck mixed in.

The End.

As for the religion thing, I always though that it was wise to aim for heaven, and then you get earth mixed in.

but, the fool is the one that aims for earth...

and well, those Scandinavians that think they are so smart...its going be pretty ****ing silly playing poker with all that sweat and heat in the room.

cheers!
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:29 AM   #42
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Its because of all the sluts here. We like to get it in
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #43
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

anything connected with any religion is -EV
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:42 AM   #44
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Because of the metric system.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:49 AM   #45
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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well, we dont believe in God here really, its all about Thor, Odin and so on. We still kill chickens, cows and sheeps to please our Gods. So we are used to being agro in life, so we do the same when we play poker...
you kill chickens, cows and sheeps while playing poker ?
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:55 AM   #46
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

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You've never seen the stats from the winter war I take it
I've seen that Sweden maintained an official policy of neutrality while at the same time capitulating to the Nazis; allowing them to use their trains to transport soldiers/weapons and continuing to sell them iron ore in full knowledge it was being used to make munitions.

This does not meet with my definitions of "tough" and "fearless".
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:57 AM   #47
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Finns are pretty smart I've heard...



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Old 12-01-2010, 11:07 AM   #48
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

vikings were agressive until Germania
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:08 AM   #49
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Maybe it all comes down to the social security in the end. But I think a big part of the younger generations of Scandinavians (especially swedes) have become very arrogant, cocky, and have little respect for others - when they think they are better than the competition at something.

Maybe it's a good thing at the poker table if you're a player with lots of knowledge about the game, and I'm sure it helps my game even though I'm not much like that. But it also makes it pretty annoying to live in Scandinavia if you don't love to drink a lot every weekend and being a boring society degen.

(I think this thread is going to get many posts because Swedes also get very h*rny when some other country talks about them)
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:10 AM   #50
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Re: Why are Scandinavian players so much more "fearless" than the rest of the world?Religion?

Religion should have very little to do with this, unless your specific religion forbids gambling. Obv, we get the occasional lol when some catholic is praying on TV for that 4 outer to fall on the river. They DESERVE it because they're so devout or some crap like that. But they are likely the minority in their respective countries.

In terms of religion and the Nordic countries, the way I see it is that religion is popular among people who suffer. They turn to God in their distress to find comfort and hope, quite understandable. Since Nordic countries are often considered the best places to live on many accounts, it's not surprising to me that God is not too popular among their population.

This is obv a somewhat simplistic analysis, but I don't think I'm too out of line with it. Perhaps this thread should also be in the Theology-forum instead of NVG.
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