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Old 02-19-2010, 11:28 AM   #151
spadebidder
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Topset72 View Post
I see mason let the smoke monster out of his cave to post.

Needs some love.

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Old 02-19-2010, 04:21 PM   #152
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Topset72 View Post
Back When Mason actually had to post here to keep this place going, Abdul was killing Mason in strategy discussions. Abdul was also advocating slightly different values for starting hands.

Mason banished Michael Hall(who became Abdul Jalib) for dispensing poker advice that didn't fit in with 2+2 philosophy of playing only group 1+2 hands in a robotic fashion. This style was actually pretty effective for that time, but Abdul knew if he wanted to keep moving up in limits the 2+2 style wouldn't keep working.

Abdul made a lot of good posts on RGP rec.gambling.poker which cover the game conditions in the mid '90s. He only writes about poo flinging limit poker.
No. He was banned for making numerous personal insults. Also, it was always made clear that if the insults would stop he would be able to post again.

MM
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:48 PM   #153
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

In the old style Texas gambling joints where I spent so much of my life, the houseman was King. There was a final pronouncement that meant the discussion was over, "Hey. I pay the rent on this joint!"

This is Mason's business place, and he is most tolerant. The title of the thread is false to start with, and I had never heard that before, and I have been rather active blogging and writing about poker. Some folks on here are looking for small reasons to confirm the false headline of the thread. Mason is a bigger man than me for allowing it. I'd of locked it, and thrown away the key.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:49 PM   #154
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Riggermortis View Post
because his last name is similar to Helmuth
lol
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:29 AM   #155
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

whats the hubbub bub about hate on the big MM?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:51 AM   #156
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Johnny Hughes View Post
In the old style Texas gambling joints where I spent so much of my life, the houseman was King. There was a final pronouncement that meant the discussion was over, "Hey. I pay the rent on this joint!"

This is Mason's business place, and he is most tolerant. The title of the thread is false to start with, and I had never heard that before, and I have been rather active blogging and writing about poker. Some folks on here are looking for small reasons to confirm the false headline of the thread. Mason is a bigger man than me for allowing it. I'd of locked it, and thrown away the key.

Is it also the Texas style to ass-kiss the guy in charge?
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:03 PM   #157
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Mason = cranky (as in cantankerous)

Malmuth = just (as in fair, equitable)

All in all, I think Mason Malmuth is ok.

I think the fact that this thread exists proves that.

But as for Malmuth Mason, watch out for him, he's just cranky.

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Old 02-23-2010, 01:58 PM   #158
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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All this stuff about Gary Wise allegedly being a spammer is mostly a smokescreen. It's clear from the thread linked to earlier and from the circumstances that the real reason Gary Wise was banned was because he invited Todd Witteles (aka Dan Druff) onto his show. This all happened during a period of time when Mason was on the warpath against NWP.

Here's Mat Sklansky writing in the thread linked to earlier:

I'll attempt to make things clearer. Gary Wise has done a fair amount of spamming on this site. He has previously been banned for spamming. Now in this latest instance, the reason Mason gave for banning Gary Wise was in fact : "Think Tank/Todd Witteles/Never Win Poker relationship"

In reality this promotion of Witteles was what pushed Mason over the edge. The link to Think Tank was posted by jman and we have reasons to believe that that link was posted because Gary Wise asked for it to be posted. Hence we felt that that particular thread was spam and Gary Wise spam to be exact. However, it wasn't until Mason noticed that Todd was featured on this show of Wise's that he felt Gary wise should be permanently banned. Hence the reason.

When Mason said he was willing to give a second chance, he meant that such a chance would be given, providing Wise would remove Witteles from his show. That's the only condition that must be met. I'll answer further questions if asked.
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However, from our perspective he is helping to support NWP and it's owners. Moreover, we believe that he is not only supporting this other site, but is encouraging other people to promote it on twoplustwo.com. This is not acceptable.




Note how the particular alleged "spamming" by Gary Wise that supposedly led to his banning was a post by someone else entirely - jman - a respected poster, who publicly stated (later in the thread) that he made that post of his own accord.

This kind of pettiness, self-righteousness and inflated ego (as exhibited in the Gary Wise incident, the AQ vs. JJ thread etc.) is a big part of why some people dislike Mason. The dishonesty and dissembling about his real reasons for doing things (e.g., the Wise ban again) is another big part of it.


i guess mason has no comment on this
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:06 PM   #159
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Johnny Hughes View Post
The title of the thread is false to start with, and I had never heard that before, and I have been rather active blogging and writing about poker. Some folks on here are looking for small reasons to confirm the false headline of the thread. Mason is a bigger man than me for allowing it. I'd of locked it, and thrown away the key.
The title is subjective so how can it be false? Are you saying nobody in the poker community hates MM? Pretty sure at least Gary Wise does as well as everyone at Bluff Magazine.
I try to respect old people but jfc you're annoying, imo
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:42 PM   #160
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Back in the ol rgp days everybody hated everybody, or so it seemed. Poker discussion moved to 4 wear Malmuth could rool the roost by censoring the fourm, but that doesn't make the hate go away.

BTW, the archives of Rgp are still there (google grooups) and full of names like Daniel Negr, Doyle Brunson, Joh Juanda, Malmuth, Sklansky, Badger, Gary Carson, and a bunch of others. etc before anyone had heard of them. Reading their catfights is hilarious when you think about their celebrity personae.
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:21 AM   #161
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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I'll have to consult my attorney and get back to you.
lol so true
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:49 PM   #162
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Sounds like he doesn't suffer fools gladly. No shortage of them!
Good trait in my opinion.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:16 PM   #163
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

There is an inherent tension between the open forums and the paid products of 2+2. As a poker author with books published by others (including one Mason Malmuth has mentioned favorably on this site), I've run into this a number of times.

Obviously this isn't just a 2+2 problem. It's an issue in all media, to a greater or lesser extent. The issue is more what we expect. Local weekly papers aren't expected to do objective restaurant reviews. The New York Times is.

In the books forum it's somewhat understandable that 2+2 books will be promoted and others will not. I've debated this with TT and others.

The bigger issue is in the strategy forums, which are still very good but increasingly intermingled with semi-promotional content from coaches who also have sponsored content on 2+2. I think it is probably to be expected that when someone is paying $5,000+ a month in advertising fees, their voice may also speak a little louder in the free areas.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:32 PM   #164
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Riggermortis View Post
because his last name is similar to Helmuth
lol

Last edited by J0hny; 02-25-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:59 PM   #165
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Mason's bark is worse than his bite, even when it's up the wrong tree.

<VBG>

I'm happy to say he really is a sweetheart, even if he would adamantly deny it. Mason gets a bad rap, mostly from people who have never met him. If he were as some think, this thread would not exist. ...and he's been baited by far better than this.
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:44 PM   #166
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

I think that just the very nature of 2+2 (both the forum and publisher aspects) makes it obvious that Mason is the nuts. I've even had a couple of small arguments with him in these forums, and I felt honored that he participated in them.

Edit: whoever compared Mason to Jacob and David to the nemesis/smoke was making a very apt analogy in some ways. Not that David is evil or anything, but just a mysterious evil genius. Mason is the benevolent dictator.

Last edited by spadebidder; 02-26-2010 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:03 PM   #167
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Years ago, I worked as a professional statistician, first for the government at the United States Census Bureau, and then for the Northrop Corporation. In both of these jobs, part of my responsibilities was to make sure that the work produced in the areas I had responsibility was concise and accurate. This meant part of my job was to correct other people's work and not tolerate anything inaccurate that was being presented, or prepared where my job responsibilities reached. This included correcting work done by high level managers as well as high level people who represented our customer.
Lol... although not at Northrop, this is pretty much describes my job.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:28 PM   #168
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Careful reading of this thread and the background material, with an eye to reading between the lines and for not accepting everything at face value, should answer OP's question.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #169
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?
Most likely because he is insecure and hates to be critisized. My take on him.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:17 AM   #170
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
Just FWIW, Mason has always been pleasant in my interactions with him.
What he said.

Is he the most personable human on Earth ? I don't know that I'd assign him this label - though to be fair, my three (3) interactions with him all occurred during red chip LHE games (two as an opponent, one as a drooling admirer who approached him during a deck change to say "hi" and introduce myself).

In all three instances he was polite, attentive, and [appropriately] modest. I hope I'm afforded the opportunity to run into him again.

- C
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:13 PM   #171
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

he's liked, but not well liked.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:09 AM   #172
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

You have to give credit to Mason. He has been around a long time. When he started writing poker books along with David Sklansky it was unprofitable. I remember David's original hold-em book being sold in in Gamblers Book Club for a few dollars. Poker exploded and 2+2 was there for ride. Now the poker publishing business is highly profitable. New players come along every day. Wonder what would happened to poker if California and the Internet didn't come along. I remember many days in Las Vegas when they couldn't even spread a 10-20 limit hold-em game between the downtown and the Stardust. The days when Phil Helmuth would come into town from Michigan and the locals would sent him home broke every weekend. Phil had the last laugh. Many of those old time limit hold-em players from the Stardust are broke or dead. Phil is eating Sushi in a penthouse suite at Aria.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:53 AM   #173
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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OP, have you ever met a Mason in real life that was pleasant to be around? i didn't think so.
LOL. The couple Masons I know are pleasant to be around for about 3hrs tops.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:58 AM   #174
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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You have to give credit to Mason. He has been around a long time. When he started writing poker books along with David Sklansky it was unprofitable.
Actually this isn't true. Our business was profitable from the time I self-published my first book in 1987.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:08 AM   #175
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Isilfur3 View Post
He is not liked by bluff magazine fans:

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/forum/f...D=3605&OB=DESC
Mason > Eric Morris x 10000
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