Didnt he try and get mods to try and limit threads in strategy forums because it effected 2+2 book sales

There was also an incident with Ed Miller putting poker related stuff on his own website that Mason played hardball over.

So it would seem he is a hard nose business man and i guess that can rub people the wrong way

Agree 100%

i think if people didnt say best wishes everytime, they may be rubbed the right way... nuru massage style

I'm not sure what you mean by this...? Mason is the owner of 2p2. David is an author whose works were published.

You believe this... because your field of expertise is poker theory... and does not extend to all Zero Sum Games. Almost universally, books on financial markets and trading... are a LOADED with every conceivable statistical fallacy.

The Top 20 poker books on Amazon... will give you enough correct information to become a strong, winning poker player. The Top 20 trading books on Amazon... will be so contradictory or nonsensical... that they will almost inevitably lead a novice into any number of fatal dead ends.

Unlike the Casino Industry, which openly tells you that you are "gambling" for fun... the Securities Industry systematically promotes worthless approaches to trading as "investing". It's an integral part of their Culture to deceive the average investor in countless ways.

MM uses paragraphs and sound reasoning in his posts which is probably why people don't like him, 99% of people can't be forced to do that online including me but i like him

Listen to the 02.05.2010 episode of The Poker Beat.

http://www.pokerroad.com/radio/the-p...y-poker-launch

I don't think it's a super big deal, but he did say he despises him.

I miss El Diablo and would like to know WTF happened, but you have to give credit to 2+2 for not accepting UB/AP ads.

No other site on the Internet related to poker can make this claim. When grading on a curve, 2+2 is the only forum on the graph. Those other sites can pretend the cheaters that stole the popcorn money don't still own AP but that alone will never make it true.

Basically, this site is the only place the poker population can come and find something that resembles the truth. Everyone else is just a minister of propaganda.

What was the story with Abdul Jalib?
How about El Diablo?

Anyone notice this post in that old thread from a person called "Chris Moneymaker":

"The real reason AQ is better than JJ is because the former has an Ace of spades which just happens to be Norman Chad's favorite card.

Seriously, on the flop, the AQ (because it is in early position) has the first opportunity to bet on the flop regardless of what the flop is. Thus, if I was playing this hand I would commit to betting an amount on the flop which is 2/3 of the pot even before I see the flop.

Now take a look at this action from the perspective of the JJ guy.

Flop 1: two or more overcards flop (JJ guy scared)
Flop 2: three small cards flop (JJ confused but could make a highly risky raise to find out where he's at)
Flop 3: there's a small pair on the flop (JJ confused but could make an info raise as well)

In other words, AQ gets to play with less fear and confusion. In this hand AQ is better than JJ because of position. Early position to be exact."

***It would be pretty ironic if this is the real moneymaker given that an almost identical situation occurred in the wsop that should have busted him. Ivey flopping set (99) against Moneymaker's trip queens (AQ). Of course Chris ended up sucking out.

I agree. But with some kids there is simply nothing you can do. They throw temper tantrums and look like they are about to burst into tears whenever someone says something they don't understand. And when you do end up explaining it to them in a way a 2 year old could understand they suddenly start acting like they are old and wise.

i've disagreed with his approach now and then on the forums and doubt he/2p2 is fully up to speed with the evolution of high-level strategy that has happened in the past five years, but mason does his job pretty well and they still produce quality books even in an environment where there are a lot more sources of quality poker instruction other than bookstore books.

Ivey Flopped a set []

Whatever ... Ivey turned it. Still a perfect example of why middle pair in position might be better than AQs oop.

randomness - i don't have time to infract you right now but you need to stop with your dumb hand analysis in this thread. thanks.

gary wise is a tool

I thought Mason Malmuth had a Ph.D. I don't knows why. He is a learned and reasonable man. I met Dutch Boyd before anyone had heard of him. I gave him that nickname. He said Russ. I thought he said Dutch.
Dutch left Two Plus Two no choice but to sue. His actions in this matter are silly, and child-like, and I imagine Dutch knows it.

second level?

I opened this thread just to see if this thread was posted, it is my single favorite thread in 2+2 history.

Anyone new (and by "new" I guess I really mean anyone who hasn't been here for over 4 years) to the forum should do themselves a favor and read through it, despite its length.

To this day I'm not sure that Mason has ever admitted to being dead wrong about that hand, which in and of itself would seem to shed some light on why many people don't get along well with him.

EDIT: If Mason has admitted that he was wrong about the AQs v JJ then I apologize for implying that he hasn't and would love to see a link.

Read the entire thread.

Jeff

Ah yes, I don't know how I could have forgotten that. My mistake, I retract the part about not being sure if he ever admitted he was wrong.

He did, it just took him until Nov. 21st, and only after numerous failed attempts to either redefine the question and move the goal posts or outright dismiss the opinions of those smart enough to realize that he was dead wrong on Nov. 12th.

Sorry about that.

See he is a NIT!

j/k Mason. Its good to not let people think something that's untrue.

In my circle of friends i'm sure i'm know as that "know it all who likes to correct people." But none of my friends hate me for it. Haters are always going to be people you don't care what they think anyway.

EDIT: Even if Mason apparently acted like a dick in that posted thread, he apologized. One internet discussion of one poker hand i don't think is enough to justify the spew against Mason. Bluff guys are jealous and angry about business. Business is business. Its not personal. The Bluff guys need a Tom Hagen to advise them of this fact.

Not a level. It's a pain to dole infractions. I was playing a bunch of different tables at the same when I wrote that and really only had the energy to do that post and not go through the infraction process.

I was also using the post as a warning to others to stop babbling about the AQ vs JJ debate as if it's a new thing AND was also in a giving mood and willing to let him off without an infraction if he didn't press on.

I appear on The Poker Beat with Gary Wise, and thought I would add a quick comment.

I have no personal opinion of Mason Malmuth, because I've never met him. I have a fairly high professional opinion because of the success of 2+2 (judged both by money and quality).

However, I think the reason 2+2 wasn't represented in Bluff's power rankings is because they only ranked individuals this year. (PokerStars is #1 and Full Tilt is #2, but those are legal disguises for the individuals with primary ownership, and Bluff admits that in an editorial note.)

The problem for 2+2 is that the power is generated by the thousands of posters, and not by the individual owners of the site. Yes, they could ban people, and choose which books to publish and things like that, but as pointed out several times in this thread, 2+2's ownership succeeds by staying out of the way.

Malmuth, by choice, doesn't actively participate in the poker "industry" as much as he just does his own thing (and play poker, of course). That's to his credit, but it does weaken his power and influence within the "industry."

I'm not sure whether I'd include anyone from 2+2 in the top 20 as individuals, but I definitely wouldn't include them in the top 10. Now, if you're judging companies and organizations (as Bluff had in the past), then it would be absurd to leave 2+2 out of the top 10.

Okay, so my comment wasn't so quick. My apologies.

"To answer your question honestly when it comes to hold 'em and stud, I already know everything there is to know and it has been this way for many years." - Mason Malmuth, March 24, 2002