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Old 03-11-2012, 06:59 PM   #251
Mason Malmuth
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmadoc View Post
It is peculiar that it appears only the authors that publish with 2 + 2, are accurate/not "flawed" via the sites reviews. Wonder what the odds of that being the source of some hard feelings might e?
2+2 began to publish in 1987 and by the end of 1989 David and I had united all of our books under the 2+2 banner. And yes, at that time, virtually everything else was flawed, and it was the source of friction between us and other authors and publishers.

MM
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #252
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

What about the source of friction between you and Paul Phillips? Or the other numerous good people/posters you have ran off?
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:11 PM   #253
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmadoc View Post
Chess will never be in the same league as poker. Please give that analogy
a rest.

It is peculiar that it appears only the authors that publish with 2 + 2,
are accurate/not "flawed" via the sites reviews. Wonder what the odds of
that being the source of some hard feelings might be?
Fixed your first sentence.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:13 PM   #254
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Mason has developed a pretty thick skin for what goes on in here.
That is a knee slapper or maybe quick to pull the trigger mods make him appear to be thin skinned.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:22 PM   #255
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Strange thread...bashing the guy who brought everyone here together to this forum...
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:33 PM   #256
Mason Malmuth
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by SYLAER View Post
Strange thread...bashing the guy who brought everyone here together to this forum...
Hi Sylaer:

Everyone needs to understand that when a company has been as successful as 2+2, there will always be a few people who want to take a shot at you. So it just comes with the territory, and on occasion one of the shot takers might actually point out something that can use some improvement, so threads like this one are not quite as negative as they seem.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:33 PM   #257
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Strange thread...bashing the guy who brought everyone here together to this forum...
I'm here because of the forum and not because of Mason. There's a difference.

Meaning I'm here because the forum is here not because Mason is on the forum.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #258
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

I always assumed it was because he and Sklansky weren't bashful when it came to pointing out the errors in what would be considered their competitors information. And back in the day they were completely right. He/they might not be "respected" in some sense of the word by certain factions of the industry but he is one of the undisputed Kings of poker information/books.

Personally, I don't know Malmuth or Sklansky, but I respect them tremendously for their knowledge of the game and approach to teaching it and are the number 1 reason I even got into this crazy game.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:45 PM   #259
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by WalterS View Post
What about the source of friction between you and Paul Phillips? Or the other numerous good people/posters you have ran off?
If they weren't banned and chose to no longer post, I think the poster would be the source of best information and not anyone from 2plus2.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:50 PM   #260
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Doc T River View Post
I'm here because of the forum and not because of Mason. There's a difference.

Meaning I'm here because the forum is here not because Mason is on the forum.
I don't think anyone cares why you are here. But the point is that you are here and that means at least from your perspective we must be doing some things well.

And as for me being on the forum or not, remember this site has over 100 forums, and many of them I virtually never participate in but lots of others do. So my suspicion is that very few people are actually here because I am here, and that's the way it should be and something we at 2+2 have always striven for. That is, we want the product to do the talking with less emphasis on the individuals who help to create the product.

MM
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:53 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Sylaer:

Haters gonna hate

Best wishes,
Mason
If I may translate your post?
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #262
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
I don't think anyone cares why you are here. But the point is that you are here and that means at least from your perspective we must be doing some things well.

And as for me being on the forum or not, remember this site has over 100 forums, and many of them I virtually never participate in but lots of others do. So my suspicion is that very few people are actually here because I am here, and that's the way it should be and something we at 2+2 have always striven for. That is, we want the product to do the talking with less emphasis on the individuals who help to create the product.

MM
I know no one cares why I'm here. Just making a response to something I felt was somewhat flawed.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:59 PM   #263
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by SharkBaitAA View Post
I always assumed it was because he and Sklansky weren't bashful when it came to pointing out the errors in what would be considered their competitors information. And back in the day they were completely right. He/they might not be "respected" in some sense of the word by certain factions of the industry but he is one of the undisputed Kings of poker information/books.

Personally, I don't know Malmuth or Sklansky, but I respect them tremendously for their knowledge of the game and approach to teaching it and are the number 1 reason I even got into this crazy game.
We also have on many occasions praised and promoted our competitors when it was appropriate to do so. Just look at my reviews and the number of non-2+2 books which I recommend as well as the number of non-2+2 authors who come on here to talk about their books.

There are also examples behind the scene of our helping other authors and/or publishers which most of you don't know about. For example, a few years back the distributor of a competitive publisher went bankrupt and this publisher lost its distribution. As a favor to them and to a couple of their authors who do post here, we contacted the book buyers at both Borders and Barnes & Noble and recommended that they carry their stuff. We did this because we felt that a couple of their books were very good and got no benefit back for ourselves.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:18 PM   #264
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterS View Post
What about the source of friction between you and Paul Phillips? Or the other numerous good people/posters you have ran off?
Paul Phillips
Tom Weideman
Gary Carson
Badger
Abdul

Need more?
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:24 PM   #265
Mason Malmuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Paul Phillips
Tom Weideman
Gary Carson
Badger
Abdul

Need more?
If things are so bad, why are you here? Also, because this comes up every so often, Abdul was banned because of numerous insults. But he was told that if the insults would stop he could post again.

MM
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #266
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Paul Phillips
Tom Weideman
Gary Carson
Badger
Abdul

Need more?
Calling Gary Carson a "good person" is a stretch surely?
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:19 PM   #267
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by AllBlackDan View Post
Respect ^^^

To expand on that, maybe its the fact he is a man of integrity working in an industry that has very little
If this is true, than I totally agree. It is a world where scamming, cheating, lying, and conning is prevalent and there are few honest people in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyStick View Post
I know it is two years old, thats why I find it interesting.

He needs to cultivate a certain image so he lets this thread stand and doesn't delete posts and ban people for hating on him ITT. But they all got banned eventually, for 'other reasons' no doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
Until recently it was not widely accepted that poker was in the same league as chess, backgammon, bridge, and scrabble. People erroneously assumed that since poker skill was partly psychological it was not that important to be good at the more technical aspects. This led to publications, both books and magazines, to write stuff that had a lot of logically or mathematically flawed material. And the people in charge of those publications were not smart enough to realizethat they were publishing stuff written by those who might be winners, but who were sometimes confused as to why they won. (Those publishers are still dumb. But since a much larger percentage of winners approach the game properly, it is now much more likely that the articles and books written by winners are largely accurate.)

Since Mason and I were not bashful about pointing out the errors in other writings it is not suprising that the well meaning publishers who were incapable of finding the flaws in thier material would resent us. Not saying that this is the only reason they don't like us. But I guarantee it is the main one.
When do you choose to use Admin and D.S.? I have always wondered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Going by memory, I don't believe UB or any company related to them ever advertised directly with us.

MM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYLAER View Post
Strange thread...bashing the guy who brought everyone here together to this forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
2+2 never accepted any affiliate advertising from UB.


MM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
2+2 began to publish in 1987 and by the end of 1989 David and I had united all of our books under the 2+2 banner. And yes, at that time, virtually everything else was flawed, and it was the source of friction between us and other authors and publishers.

MM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
I don't think anyone cares why you are here. But the point is that you are here and that means at least from your perspective we must be doing some things well.

And as for me being on the forum or not, remember this site has over 100 forums, and many of them I virtually never participate in but lots of others do. So my suspicion is that very few people are actually here because I am here, and that's the way it should be and something we at 2+2 have always striven for. That is, we want the product to do the talking with less emphasis on the individuals who help to create the product.

MM
Why no best wishes?
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:57 PM   #268
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Warning: Malmouth/Sklansky fanboy post follows


It was the year 2000, May I think. I was sitting in a bookstore in Traverse City Michigan. I had been compelled to flee the premises where I was living. Things had gone fairly bad, not just that day but the whole year. I was attending Northwestern Community College where I was, for all practical purposes, majoring in alcoholism and truancy. Various crimes had been committed and I found myself playing the role of suspect.

So there I sat. As my name was paged over the loudspeaker I somehow sensed with prescient accuracy that the inquiry into my whereabouts was unlikely to be from my mother. A few seconds later as the man with the searching eyes appeared I set the book down, walked calmly to the exit, out the door and ran. Ran for miles.

I had already spent some time that year in the Grand Traverse county jail and I wasn't planning on going back. I never did.

The store was Barnes and Noble. The man was from the Michigan State Police. And the book was How to Make 100K a Year Gambling for a Living.

Now I'm a professional gambler.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:10 AM   #269
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Great story. You remind me of a young J.D Salinger

Spoiler:
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:43 AM   #270
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmadoc View Post
Poker will never be in the same league as chess. Please give that analogy
a rest.

It is peculiar that it appears only the authors that publish with 2 + 2,
are accurate/not "flawed" via the sites reviews. Wonder what the odds of
that being the source of some hard feelings might be?
Since chess requires no knowledge of probability its different from backgammon or bridge. The point I was making was that concerning those games written material is backed by good logic. Anybody who tried to get away with obviously flawed logic and math to make their case would have been immediately dismissed. Even if they happen to have hit upon the right play.

A for non 2+2 books and articles there are now plenty that are good. I said so in my original post. Of course this is not due to the publishers becoming competant. It is simply because the winning players they seek out nowadays usually have the skills to write logically. But a John Vorhaus type still often slips through. Even years ago there were a few good non 2+2 books. I wrote the forward for Roy Cooke's first book for gosh sakes.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:49 AM   #271
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjackson View Post
Warning: Malmouth/Sklansky fanboy post follows


It was the year 2000, May I think. I was sitting in a bookstore in Traverse City Michigan. I had been compelled to flee the premises where I was living. Things had gone fairly bad, not just that day but the whole year. I was attending Northwestern Community College where I was, for all practical purposes, majoring in alcoholism and truancy. Various crimes had been committed and I found myself playing the role of suspect.

So there I sat. As my name was paged over the loudspeaker I somehow sensed with prescient accuracy that the inquiry into my whereabouts was unlikely to be from my mother. A few seconds later as the man with the searching eyes appeared I set the book down, walked calmly to the exit, out the door and ran. Ran for miles.

I had already spent some time that year in the Grand Traverse county jail and I wasn't planning on going back. I never did.

The store was Barnes and Noble. The man was from the Michigan State Police. And the book was How to Make 100K a Year Gambling for a Living.

Now I'm a professional gambler.
This is available at a nice discount in the specials section of the 2+2 store.
http://www.twoplustwostore.com/twopl...&productID=231
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:58 AM   #272
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
I don't think anyone cares why you are here. But the point is that you are here and that means at least from your perspective we must be doing some things well.

And as for me being on the forum or not, remember this site has over 100 forums, and many of them I virtually never participate in but lots of others do. So my suspicion is that very few people are actually here because I am here, and that's the way it should be and something we at 2+2 have always striven for. That is, we want the product to do the talking with less emphasis on the individuals who help to create the product.

MM
Mason has some of the best posts in the Books and publications forum. Runs the best poker board in the country and has published some of the most successful books in poker. I would say he is doing something right!
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:32 AM   #273
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
If things are so bad, why are you here?
This is why he pisses people off. This attitude right here.

'You don't like it? GTFO. This is my forum'

That is his attitude in dealing with everybody. A very deep seeded and arrogant sense of entitlement.

Has he earned it? Sure. This is his forum. But it still pisses people off. You don't see Mark Zuckerberg telling that to people who complain about Facebook.

And as I predicted, within hours of my posts ITT I've started getting harassed by mods for 'other reasons'. Already picked up an infraction for something 'unrelated' by, big coincidence, the guy in blue who is sticking up for mason since the thread got bumped.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:36 AM   #274
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

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Originally Posted by HockeyStick View Post
This is why he pisses people off. This attitude right here.

'You don't like it? GTFO. This is my forum'

That is his attitude in dealing with everybody. A very deep seeded and arrogant sense of entitlement.

And as I predicted, within hours of my posts ITT I've started getting harassed by mods for 'other reasons'. Already picked up an infraction for something 'unrelated' by, big coincidence, the guy in blue who is sticking up for mason since the thread got bumped.
+1

malmuth's password is probably GOD
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:53 AM   #275
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Re: Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyStick View Post
This is why he pisses people off. This attitude right here.

'You don't like it? GTFO. This is my forum'

That is his attitude in dealing with everybody. A very deep seeded and arrogant sense of entitlement.

Has he earned it? Sure. This is his forum. But it still pisses people off. You don't see Mark Zuckerberg telling that to people who complain about Facebook.

And as I predicted, within hours of my posts ITT I've started getting harassed by mods for 'other reasons'. Already picked up an infraction for something 'unrelated' by, big coincidence, the guy in blue who is sticking up for mason since the thread got bumped.
I need to bring up a point here since your post brings up the counter point. I have virtually no interaction with the moderators. That authority is delegated to Mat Sklansky. Occasionally when there is a problem, I might hear about it, and I do talk to Mat as well as others on our staff on a regular basis. But no instructions ever come from me to a moderator along the lines that your post suggests (whether that was your intention or not),

Best wishes,
Mason
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