Come on, now. A clean cut young man like Justin "Boosted J" Smith would never do anything wrong.

Would he?

yes, i understand what you are trying to say, but the difference is that capone went to jail for something that should be illegal, and these guys might go to jail for something that shouldn't be. you are just describing the way things are, and i am describing the way things should be.

my whole argument here is with people who SHOULD be pro-gambling in the legal sense (due to the fact that they are on this website) saying, "well i think gambling should be legal because it fits with my idea of freedom, but these guys are members of organized crime, so **** them." it's not a logically consistent position.

i dunno... he doesn't look like a criminal. Eyes are too far apart.

imo, there's not a lot of genuine bad guys that are seriously into poker. Poker is like... boring... it takes all your time, and it's hard work... and it's a good way to lose money.
Scam or con someone.. do anything wrong.. and word gets around fast. Gotta find another gig.

maybe a few players were also outlaws back in the old days because they had to be, but there aren't a lot of them today.

Invictus if I may add to your thought, when things are illegal that shouldn't be illegal such as gambling now, alcohol decades ago, it creates a huge opportunity for these organized criminal elements to prosper.

I don't think people here would be worrying about Abe or Justin if they were involved in human trafficking, child porn, or a variety of other crimes committed by most organized crime syndicates. But sports betting really? In la I can bet on a guy on a horse but not a guy on a football field ? Give me a break.

I doubt the FBI's Eurasian Organized Crime Squad would have wiretapped these guys for the last many months (probably years), gathered financial info from likely laundering sources offshore, tracked $$ billions worth of art works, found connections to Syria, the Russian mobs and all the rest with some private NY poker games as the "real" target.

Poker is nothing in the scheme of things. It's not why anyone was arrested. They made coordinated busts all over the country.
I'd bet nobody is convicted of illegal gambling. Who cares about that stuff? The feds intend on hanging these people, not issue a bunch of fines for misdemeanors.

^^*****

Joe I like you so I won't accept your bet. However it is a guarantee that many people get convicted on the gambling counts. If you actually WANT to bet I will give you 2-1 for any amount you like.

I don't want to derail this thread but I don't think this was ever mentioned nvg. Here is the link... http://www.ag.ny.gov/press-release/a...y-theft-scheme

Cliffs: Investigated for a huge ID theft CC scam. As they were monitoring those involved they find a marijuana grow operation in a warehouse in NY.

Yeah I found this as well. His trial started last month. Wonder how that's going. By the sounds of it, looks like he may be going to be prison for a long time also

i shouldn't say "bet" around here. People perk up.

ok.. let me put it this way: I doubt anyone will be tried and convicted of just gambling. Sure they will tack it on, along with "conspiracy" and scores of other things, but not gambling alone.

http://articles.mcall.com/1992-12-15...luggage-search


damn amnons been doing dirt for a LONG time!

I have no doubt that there are laws that I have unknowingly broken. But that's no reason to intentionally break more of them.

Full disclosure: I did get one speeding ticket. I was going down a steep hill, there was a speed trap there, and I got caught. It was unintentional, but I was over the posted speed limit, I paid the ticket, and I've been more careful since.

Threre are indeed a lot of unfair laws. I don't think that the downhill speed trap that I encountered was fair. But the remedy is to get the law changed, or to protest the placement of the speed trap, not to break any law that I don't like.

If I decided to break any law that I don't like, would it be OK if I was 15 MPH over the speed limit going down that hill? 20? 25? The obvious answer is that it wouldn't be safe for everyone to drive anywhere he wanted, at any speed that he wanted. There has to be a speed limit on the steet where I got caught, and someone has to decide what that number is. Only government can do that.

As to it being "sad" that I don't disobey laws that I don't like, two points:

1. Some, as I said, at least try to obey every law out of a belief system that's it the right thing to do. Sometimes there is even a religious component to that. The Bible actually says, in the book of Romans, that Christians are to obey the governing authorities. You might think it sad that someone would take that literally, but there are millions of Christians in the United States that do.

2. Obeying the law just makes sense. It makes one's life a whole lot easier. To put it another way, it's life +EV.

I will never be afraid of a tax audit, in fact, when they look at my past returns, how I keep my records, and how I've always reported cash income in the past, the audit, if there is one, won't last very long.

I keep great records of my poker play, and I even include extra information on my returns (such as the total number of my net win vs. net loss tournaments) to show that have a basis for my totals for net wins and net losses, that I didn't pull those totals out of the air. And if they look at my past returns, they will see that I once declared $50 in cash income for playing my clarinet during a restaurant gig.

A lot of people think that's incredibly stupid--after all, the IRS would never know about $50. That's true, but the Poker Legislation Forum is full of people who have no idea what to do about their income taxes because they didn't keep records of their play, or they haven't paid any taxes on poker winnings in the last two years, or they don't want to pay because it isn't fair to tax poker winnings. (My response to a young player when he says that is to ask why his parents should pay taxes on their income, but not him? It's an income tax.)

After one of those threads goes on for a while, someone always says the obvious thing, something like,

"Just pay your taxes. Don't ask for trouble."

To use another example of why it pays to obey the law, a lot of people in these forums think that prostitution isn't a big deal. I'm a Libertarian, and Libertarians certainly don't think that prostitution should be illegal. But since I obey the laws prohibiting prostitution I, unlike another Libertarian named Greg Raymer, will never put my wife and children through what Raymer's family is dealing with now.

Just obey the law. Don't ask for trouble.

Last 2 yrs or so and JRB also owes Mr. Baldwin like 500k. Mr Baldwin has loaned out plenty but not much to someone who has no source of income


[QUOTE=Clayton;38108748]probably referring to the massive games at iveys room with bobby baldwin et all, which would be kind of a misleading statement since half the game was friends of bobby baldwin so I highly doubt bellande was a bad investment[/QUOTE

I have an old friend who works at Aria (name withheld obv) and he says JRB was a constant loser even when it was with Mr. Baldwins friends. I didn't see this 1st hand but I am 100% sure my pal isn't lyin about this. It doesn't really
matter, it just kinda clicked when Boosted was mentioned in all of this

That Amnon says he's 25. Plz let there be another one b/c I really like the older (40 something) Filippi

look at the date of the article.

i said it was sad that you blindly obeyed laws, not that you didnt try to break everyone that you didnt agree with. some laws need to be broken. some laws are just an inconvenience that you have to decide if its worth the risk of arrest to break it and that calculation will be different for everyone.

1. i do think it is sad that anyone takes the bible literally. even if you do take the bible literally God is pretty much the worst entity in existence in the old testament.

2. i do think it is wise to obey the laws that make sense to obey, even if you disagree with them, up to a certain point. if i was rushing my friend to the hospital i might decide to break the speed limit. certain revenge scenarios come to mind also and of course gambling.

What??? I don't even get what you're trying to say. I 'don't want to pay taxes'? That's why I wish them well??? Huh?

I understand that besides pointing out how you speak on things you know less than nothing about (frequently, not just this thread, as everybody sees) and also pointing out what a pansy/probable rat you are, that you would have something negative to say, which is cool. But taxes??? I said nothing about taxes. I wished the defendants the best of luck because prosecuting people for sports betting, running poker games in what is probably the most active criminal District in the States is ******ed. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH US ALL TRYING TO AVOID TAXES????

I despise keyboard warriors and I'm not here to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but imho you should rethink your strategy my friend.

EXACTLY, most of you are missing the point, these guys are not being arrested for playing high stakes poker in fancy hotel suites. It's not because this is poker related and we all want online poker to legalized in the US that we should take every opportunity presented to us to blame to DOJ. Believe me, TONS of people played those games. Every big name pros coming to town for a few days would play that game. If they were going after players only because they played, the list would be way longer than 34 names. So the conclusion is that if player's names are on the list, they did way more than just show up to a friendly 100k buy-in game of poker. They took a wrong turn and did something way more illegal than that.

In the 84 page indictment some defendants, like boostedj are only charged with bookmaking and counts related to bookmaking. It starts on page 48 and its counts 9-11 if you want a quick look. They are not charged with any other charges, not even extortion which is in basically strong arming the players who owe money to the betting operation. Abe Mosseri IS Charged in counts such as these do the Feds did make a very clear distinction. It's pretty obvious guys like Justin are Charged with being part of the bookmaking operation. They are charged with all aspects of that operation but I highly doubt they were owners in the book. I really doubt Russian oligarchs are sitting around Moscow or the Ukraine saying " we really need Justin smith as a partner to make this bookmaking operation happen, let's make him a partner " . Boostedj is in this jam because he alledgedly helped facilitate illegal sports betting by hooking up clients and possibly getting a cut of losses . Sports betting being illegal is no less ridiculous then poker being illegal. Handicapping sports is a skill just like poker, people who think it is just flipping a coin usually have the same exact opinion about poker.


Unfortunately since home poker and sports betting are illegal when people want to bet serious money they end up getting involved with really bad people. However saying these guys did anything else wrong is not accurate. If the Feds had other counts they could charge them with they would have. The nature of Rico is charge people with everything you MAY be able to prove make threats and see who decides to play ball.

I hope people like Justin and Molly are exonerated and get out of this unscathed, what happens to the real criminals i don't really care .

Not the sports betting and poker are = thing again.

And just take a look at Ray Bitars incitement, if the Feds have other things to charge they might just have it sealed away for now...

You're probably a nice guy and just don't know how to talk to people so I'll give you another chance to make things clear.

If you were a poker player arrested in this mess.. looking for some easy money.. made a couple bad decisions.. in the wrong place, wrong time... and had no mob connections, and the cops wanted you to cooperate, would you tell them everything you knew, or not?

Fair enough. At the end of the day it's a fine line. I do think that someone like Molly is in deep trouble. She was organizing games and taking rake. A LOT of it. BoostedJ I don't know but all I was saying is that tons of players went through these games so there has got to be a reason that he is in the indictment and not the other probably 50 big name pro who played as well, you know?

I'm thinking the Russians that were in charge of collections just liked to keep Justin Smith around so that after they've delivered the beating and collected their money they can have him there to tell the victim, "You got Booooooooosted!"

I've got to imagine that would be a lot of fun for them.

Joe, I absolutely wouldn't. I would (and have) owned up to my transgressions w/o pointing the finger. If one does something that they know might have some consequences, then one must accept those consequences, or don't do those things. I think I've been as clear as one could possibly be about my position. That you need me to again make 'things clear' is more evidence that your reading comprehension is very poor.

Fwiw, I deal pretty well w/people every day, in my job, with my beautiful wife, with my friends and family, and if you read my posts, with those on 2plus2 as well. So I guess you are pretty far off base on that one, too. You're batting 1.000 lol. Based on the amount of time and number of posts you make here I wonder if you have any sort of real, meaningful life. You aren't really being a jerk, so may be I'm being too hard on you. But unless you already have, get a decent job, a hot chick (or dude), and a fulfilling and active life with REAL people before you claim that I 'probably don't know how to talk to people'.

Our conversation on this matter is over. I have no more interest in talking to rats on the internet. I'm expecting one last poorly articulated post back but it will be in vain. Try to put this behind you and have a decent day.

Funny how the indictment says this "illegal" gambling business started in 06. Oh it couldn't have been because of some stupid gamling bill that passed in that year could it?

also thanks Obama for nominating this Preet baraha guy he seems like a fun guy