The guy was clearly an amateur that didn't know the implications of what he was doing and his ****ing dad just died, think calling him 'scummy' is a little off here.

r u kidding? he ****in flipped up his cards to show the man he had nothing? what would u call that? scummy people's dads die too... we all do. If he wanted to do the right thing he could have just left. If he tried to lose his chips on purpose to someone and not show his cards that's one thing, this is collusion in it's purest form, whether or not the other player had bad intentions or whatever. Love the 5 river tho laaaaater.

Pretty fkn obv he just had no idea what was going on/how bad it looked and was. If he did he wouldn't have openly announced that, showed doc his hand or called off his stack with 5 high. Scum implies malicious intent.

Clueless/ignorant maybe, scumbag no.

come on man, he was playing the main event u think it was his first time playing poker? u r the one being clueless here. 100 percent scum move any way u wanta paint it. I mean i don't think it's the end of the world or anything and it's not THAT big of a deal in overall scheme of life, sure he's not a bad person, but come on bro, it's obviously wrong.

geez, normally I would agree with you kramerica that it is a scum move but clearly the guy wasn't in the right frame of mind. If my dad passed I wouldn't give two ****s but obviously it affected him pretty badly, I am willing to cut people some slack in these cases

Shoulda just called turn. Then let him bet/fold the river.

Dealers need to be instructed on situations like this, as soon as the dealer in the box heard any hint of chip dumping, especially with an incentive even if only 1% freeroll, the dealer should have called the floor. The TD should have come over after being alerted by the floor to clearly state that any chip dumping would end in disqualification of both players involved.

I mean this is sooo gross, if some random dude who can't play the next day is getting a 1% freeroll on a table mate of course he's going to dump to him; Doc Sands should have NEVER said anything about giving the guy 1% until AFTER the guy busted, not while the guy can still dump all his chips to him; how Doc didn't recognize what he was doing and how wrong it was is beyond me, if the story unfolded as OP stated.

There are stupid rules in the WSOP, like a hand has to be shown to win a pot etc. in an effort to identify chip dumping and soft play and here we have a guy blatantly putting all his chips in the middle, showing his opponent his hand and calling off with 5 high after telling Doc he wanted to give him all his chips and also after Doc offered the guy a % of his ultimate winnings. WTF... Shady, shady, shady.

Is Doc's A7o UTG+1 call of an UTG raise standard in tournaments for his stack size?

edit: why hasn't Doc posted itt yet? his absence is disconcerting.

Sounds like Sands got the river he deserved.

JCHAK:

A poster a few replies back insisted that Doc Sands is a stickler for observing the rules and this situation, if true, is very uncharacteristic of Doc. (I believe he stated that Doc observes the rules to a "T" and does not hesitate to call the floor if he believes a rule is being violated.) He also pleaded that we reserve judgment until we hear from Doc.

The "facts" (alleged facts) as related in the OP are pretty compelling. It was also reported Monday night on PokerNews that Doc Sands had been "crippled" (and shortly thereafter eliminated) as the result of a very unusual situation; so at least some substantial part of the OP's story appears to be true. It will be interesting to hear Doc's version/clarification concerning exactly what transpired.

It's my understanding that Caesar's conducts a "Dealer Training Session" or a "Dealer Orientation Session" for the Main Event approximately a week prior to the commencement of the tournament. I have a feeling dealers being on the alert for (and recognizing) potential chip dumping will be thoroughly covered in next year's training session.

Yup------Def rigged in my OP

Yeah, there is no cheating in poker, give me a break------people dump chips, steal WSOP chips and blurt out hand clues ALL THE DAMN TIME

Give me a freaking break PEOPLE!

RIGGED!

Cut the guy some slack, his dad passed away and there was no malice. Doc has done the right thing and acted appropriately in the situation. Don't see the need for this thread then. Op sounds like he is petty and malicious.

obviously doc sands called pre in the hope of receiving a dump, but i don't think that is that scummy, opening up your ranges when someone is tilting hard and looking ripe to dump off some chips is part of playing the game well.

if the guy's looking to dump his stack to the next person that finds a showdownable hand against him you might as well get in the queue.

that said, absolutely ridiculous that this hand went down, kinda shady to offer the guy a 1% freeroll, and relieving the river was a 5

@Doc_Sands: After losing an 80k pot with 90% equity 2 hands before the conclusion of day 1, I am left with 3,300 chips to start day two of the Main.

@allenbari: Hey @Doc_Sands I would love to hear you elaborate on this hand.. I heard it's actually very interesting

@TheLunchbox26: @Doc_Sands what were the two hands and action of the hand? Pretty crazy to get it in with that much equity, lose, then not give details...

@BarthMelius: @Doc_Sands @allenbari @TheLunchbox26 I saw and heard the entire exchange and hand, and will elaborate if doc won't. #chipdumpinggonewrong

@TheLunchbox26: @BarthMelius @Doc_Sands @allenbari would love to hear the hand history but it seems like someone is tanking...


@AllenKessler: @allenbari @TheLunchbox26 chip dumping is a serious accusation. What was the conversation prior to the incident.

@TheLunchbox26: @AllenKessler if @Doc_Sands would elaborate on the both his and villain's hands/conversation/action, I think we all might understand more...

@Benmintz531: @TheLunchbox26 @davidtuthill @Doc_Sands Can't wait to hear Docs comments on this hand. One of sketchiest Hand histories of alltime


Tanking comment wins

FYP

A tough spot for Sands. But by offering the 1% incentive, he basically buys a dump.

Alternative version of story;
1. Player A indicates to table "I'm about to spew as I ain't comin' back"
2. Player A flashes cards to some players
3. One of those players (B) advises dealer / floor of flashing of cards, floor rules hand plays on
4. Player B calls shove knowing he crushes Player A

... this on it's own is probably OK. But adding the conversation, and the 1%, makes it collusion IMO.

If you can not return for day 2, and poker is obv not on your mind, why not just leave right away?

Don't really know what to make of Doc's actions but doesn't sound kosher to me.

David:

I have a question about your # 3. Was the floor correct in allowing the hand to play on? Some of the earlier comments itt seem to imply that the floor should have ruled the hand dead and issued a stern warning to both players.

The irony is that if the floor had made such a ruling, Doc Sands might still be in contention, so the "chip dump gone wrong" has potentially cost Doc eight million dollars.

OP, here you seem to suggest you think Doc only said that because he realised you saw the card reveal also. is this your opinion?

Did the man inquire about being able to withdraw from the tournament and get a refund? Did anyone discuss this option with him at the table? I am surprised that anyone would even play the first day of the tournament under this circumstace and mindset.

The rule concerning this from the WSOP website:

105. Exposing Cards: A participant exposing his or her cards with action pending will incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will
begin at the end of the hand. All participants at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested.

I don't know how a future forum legend makes an entrance, but I think it might look something like this.

I think there were lots of failures here;

At the point where "The man turned towards Doc, and said to him, 'All you have to do is raise, If you raise I fold' ." someone should have called the floor.

But who calls the floor on the recently bereaved?

At the point where "While Doc was tanking, the man in seat 7 peeled his cards up revealing the 53dd, making them clearly visible not just to Doc, but also to me in the 9 seat." someone should have called the floor.

But who calls the floor on the recently bereaved?

I've thought about the options open to the floor. Kill docs hand for offering the 1% to a player who has implied he's ready to dump? Kill other players hand for dumping? Warn both players?

If I was the floor in this spot (and "I Am Not A Floor" btw), I'm basically taking my cue from the table. Everyone knows what's happening, and nobody - for better or worse - has called the floor other than the dealer.

In that spot the floor probably figured he'd annoy nobody by letting it play out, and annoy some people by killing either or both hands. It's not premeditated team-play, its opportunistic collusion by a player who stands to lose equity in the collusion, and another player who has some guilt, but with a history of scrupulous rule-following! And not a single complaint from the other players in the table.

Well, maybe he'll make 12milliion in cash action and roulette tomorrow, so maybe the decision made him 4m dollars. Results are irrelevant, but SUPER ironic.

Heck Doc did what every guy would do I thought he handled it fine and I bet was super nervous when the guy called the shove. Reality doc should have asked him how many chips he had and bet enough to leave him some to fold the river

If you paid 10k to experience the main event then you probably want to, I don't know, experience the main event.