hahah. tell me a little more about your theory about online poker plz.

AP and UB are doing a pretty good job of explaining my theory. The microgaming skins that just stole all their player's money are also contributing to my theory. The KGC is also fitting nicely into my theory. Do I really need to say anything at all?

yes

The really troubling part about the entire thing is that games are still running there. Not just games that are like .5/1 with people who may not look at forums or have the news that anything is going on, but higher games too.

For as long as Ive played online poker, the logical argument of why sites will not cheat the players is because it was simply a bad business decision. Why steal 50 or 100k in the short term in lieu of long term profits in the millions? Only the truly stupid would take this trade, and since to run an online poker site, you would assume to have some business savvy, everyone felt safe.

Now that it has come to pass that Absolute/UB have been stealing from the player, their traffic may have suffered a small drop, but not even close to what is an appropriate response from the player base. The creates a very, very bad precedent in online poker. Now what is to stop the owners of any poker site to cheat the players? Our last defense against impropriety has been mocked and in the coming year or two, unless solid regulation comes to pass, we will all suffer consequences for these effective "scabs" who are crossing the picket line that those playing higher limits should be forming.

lol. poker is an individual game. i make decisions that benefit me, not you.

Too little, too late. Not interested, UB.

It takes a pretty stupid person to take this position regarding this issue. You win I can't argue with stupid.

I've only ever played UB for the past 4 years. Full Tilt for me now, I should have done it sooner after seeing how they handled the limit bot situation

Can you STOP quoting ibluffoldladies? I have him on ignore for a reason

It is sad that these sites always say they want to look out for the players. but it's always the players themselves who catch the cheats,out them and then raise enough hell to where something is done about it.

Good job whoever did it!

Maybe this forum could start a bounty reward to pay people who catch and out these cheats and sites, if someone would start a cheater posse reward payola fund, I'd be in for a hundo!

Are you deliberately missing the point?

Hi Bluff:

You're probably right. We at Two Plus Two, as far as I know, have never had any sort of relationship with UB. I don't think they have ever bought any advertising, and I never heard from them before. In addition, I suspect they're not real happy with the response their statement is receiving.

On the other hand, they may have thought, and perhaps rightly so, that if they had posted directly like you suggest, we would consider it unpaid advertising and delete it. So I don't fault them too much for coming through us.

Best wishes,
Mason

Imagine a gas station UBGas that was caught giving customers less than what they paid for.

Some customers decide to take their business to other gas stations with higher prices, and longer lines.

UBGas decides to stay in the business, but offer prices 15% lower than their competitors. Do u really expect people not to keep going there? The less people that decide to buy gas there, the price will go even lower.

What everybody seems to miss is that AP and UB software has super account functions built into them.

Unless they redesign their software completely the possibility of super accounts will still be there.

Does anybody really beleive the accounts found are the only ones guilty.
There are of course others with more sane cheating that is not exposed that easily. Snap of one extra bluff once in a while in NL and you have all edge you need.

Demand a complete redesign of their software ground up and from a third party.
If that does not happen noone can be safe on those sites.

I'd really like to see the look on all the faces of the people that were so absolutely 1000000% sure that this sort of thing couldn't happen. To all of you shills I say "go **** yourselves!"

Not really a good example or comparison imo. If less people decide to go to a gas station, there is less income/profit. If less (well informed, good) poker players go to a crappy site, but the fish stay, it means less rake but good hunting grounds for players willing to take a risk.

Actually, i would think the site gets more rake. I guess the only way a site dies thou is if the fish leave, not the sharks.

I'm not really talking about the site profiting from being caught cheating, I'm simply saying, if good players leave, the games will just be that much more profitable for the good players that stay. I play on UB, I hope all of the good players leave. I mean, there are people who have actually know they have been cheated, but still play there, cause the hs games are still good for them.

If trambopoline leaves, that just means more money for piejay. Whether my gas station example is a perfect example doesn't matter, the point is still made. The shark-fish dynamic makes it pretty much impossible for good winning players to stick it to a site. What are they gonna do? Go make FTP games more difficult?

Please provide a link to this claim.

I for one am looking forward to the results of UB's year long investigation into whether bears poop in the woods.

I think that the reason fish doesn't move out is because they don't know. It will happen slowly, very slowly. Absolute is #12 now, it used to be in 8th or 9th position. In your gas station example it would be the same thing. If there is a poster in the entrance of this gas station which says "we cheat, but we service faster" there would be no customers.

Also, Stars has 10 times more traffic than UB and FTP has 5 times more traffic. There are enough soft tables on both, it just takes selection.

What response did they expect? They have drawn out yet another cheating scandal investigation. They have provided little reassurance that they will invistigate the incident or bring the guilty parties to justice. Again it was the players' themselves that did all the invistigation and grunt work and demanded the situation be looked into. Would NioNio still be doing what he was doing if the players' didn't catch him?

What their statement says more than anything is that it's really up to the players' themselves to spot cheating on their site and inform them about it, because they won't be bothered.

Cheating on online poker sites gives creedence to all the people wearing tin foil hats that say "online poker is rigged, imo." What happens to the ligitimate online poker sites if everyone starts wearing tin foil hats?

Ok so UB made a statement. After 2 months of investigating they realized that nionio and others were probably cheating. It's good to finally hear something, but 2 months on something that should have taken 1 week or less iis pathetic.

How long will it be before we here anything else? They have left their door wide open to take as long as they want to conclude this scandel.

I really think an organized boycott of UB would force them to do something.

If we could find a way to have the majority of players on UB organize a 1 week boycott of the site, this would cost them millions of dollars, forcing them to actually give us a statement with some meaning and with a possible timeline for conclusion.

The hard part would be getting the word out and getting players to comply. Any suggestions?

Exactly. Anything less and I will never return.

What you are asking is nearly impossible. I agree that UB players should organize and do something in order to fix the situation, save for leaving the site altogether. This is a complex problem UB is having, and it is hard to pacify their players while investigating.

Having people boycott a site online is far too difficult to pull off. It require a large amount of their players to know about the cheating--which is unlikely--and be able to stop playing for a determined amount of time. For those whose only site is UB that will be difficult. Because of the current online poker situation, it is not as easy as going across the street as you could with a B&M casino. A boycott may not be the best option. Perhaps if a large amount of high stakes players, who are more likely to know about this scandal, collectively write to them saying they will pull out of the site completely it may have the impact desired and is probable to pull off.

but on the other hand, we all KNOW online poker is random


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