So I have been thinking about this over and over and am hoping to get some input from you guys. As we all know, pokerstars has introduced the spin and go "1 million" promotion until the end of november. We all understand that the only money that pokerstars profits from these games comes from rake, correct?

With all the other regular games and buy ins that dont change year round, over the long run the jackpot payouts will equal the money that has been accumulated from the 2x games, leaving pokerstars with just the rake as profit. The same would ring true for the million dollar games, if they were around for a very long time. However, they are not.

Since the promo period only lasts for a short time, hypothetically, lets say that over the that period they accumulate 4 million in jackpot funds, but they only pay out a total of 2 million. That leaves 2 million on the table. When the games end on November 30th, where do these funds end up? Does pokerstars just take them? Do they add them to the prizepools of the other games? And, if they do add them to the prizepools of the other games, how will they ever be paid out? Assuming one day that spin and gos are taken off the market, that extra money will then go into their pockets then as well. There is always the flip side that they end up paying out more then they accumulate during the period, leaving them with a negative. If it is a negative, does the million dollar payouts come from the prize pools of the other buy in games?

Please shed some light on this 2+2érs. I appreciate your input.

I guess they must have thought about that before launching the spins. but who knows, maybe not. Pokerstars normally isnt able to "pocket" any kind of player's money that has not been through rake. So it should be the same with spins. Im curious of where the money goes too though. Hopefully some spin reg around here has to know the answer

Last time wasn't the promotion just extended until someone hit the jackpot?

Yes, i hope someone has an answer to this.

Pokerstars should publish underneath each buy in level, the total amount that is always accumulated for "jackpot payouts". Similar to how casinos will keep track of bad beat jackpot payouts.

Also, since the 5$ 1 million jackpot went off on day 2, assuming 1 million had not already been accumulated from 2x games, where is the money paid out from? Do they put a float of their own money prior to hosting the games in order to cover this occurance?

No, last time they had it for a certain amount of time as well I believe. Not only 1 person hit the jackpot last time. I think it took much longer (around 1 month) , but once the 1st person hit, i believe 2 more people hit in the following few days.

Once again, even if they did host the game only until someone hit, what if 2MM had been accumulated and unpaid, then someone hits the 1MM. There will still be unpaid funds leftover...

well, if the jackpot hits more often than expected Stars are going to eat a loss on it (looool) so I imagine they'll happily keep the surplus when/if the jackpots under-perform.

that seems....bad for us

well, yeah. But then I somewhat doubt Spin N Gos were designed as a way for Stars to give some money back to the poker community!

Do they eat a loss on it, or do they just award the payouts from the pool of funds from the other stakes?

Regardless, they claim the only money they are profiting is from the rake and only the rake. How can we get a pokerstars rep that posts in twoplustwo forums to answer this for us? It would be nice to hear a definitive answer. Its a little concerning to players if our cash is being taken towards the jackpot, but will never be paid out.

The chance to hit 1kk jackpot is set in stone or it doesnt change much. I read (cant remember where, but think that PS rep post it hire) that money for each levels of buy ins are saperated. Lets say that if PS has that multiple only 3 months per year (or whatever time), all the time some buy ins will be in red or in green so in very long time all money will be distributed correctly imo.

Thats exactly the entire problem. If the prize pools for each buy in level is separate, where does the money go when the 50c and the 5$ games are removed?

Also, of course over time at some point it will more then likely even out. However, the promotion isnt a very long time, it is only a matter of a month (give or take).

PM or email, I'd think.

This is what I got from them last time they ran the 1M spins

I'm pretty sure they didn't understand what I was asking

They clearly didn't and I think it's clear as day what you're asking. You should ask them to pass it along to somebody who actually plays and/or understands poker/gambling.

Watching JCarver plays Spins on stream and seeing $200 come up when there's $300 in buy-ins, I've often wondered how the money is distributed.

Lot of people who do not understand math ITT.

Reads pretty clear to me. There isn't extra money set aside from buyins to pay for the $1m promo spin and goes as you and OP appear to think. Games are raked as normal and payouts and multipliers stay the same during the promotion as if there was no promotion. The 1 million dollar prize money during the promo is paid out by PokerStars, not from money set aside for higher multipliers, but probably from the money they keep in their room-full-of-money-just-because-we-can room.

I always assumed in PS pockets. or at least held in their payout account or w/e but essentially in their accounts for use for the business.

This is a casino game. Hitting it is a casino game, winning it is diff. The odds of hitting is w/e odds it is. If it hits sooner, PS pays out and 'loses'. If it hits later, they 'use' the money that was being held. But essentially its just money that they have coming and going in their accounts to keep the site running.

If it doesnt hit for a long time, them the breaks and I assume PS uses that money for w/e they want like profits from a casino table. Its assumed if nothing shady is being done, it will even out.

There was a time when the jackpot hit multiple times way sooner than it should but who really knows as we have no idea how many games get played before a jackpot hits. When 3 jackpots hit within a few weeks, we assume PS was in the hole but how do we really know how many games spawned be4 that. For all we know it, no jackpot hit worth 3 payouts and that 5 dollar spins was starting at an insane rate at like a jackpot worth a month.

tdlr - I believe its counted as profits and used as they wish as long as they have enough to cover running the business. Same as reverse if jackpots get hit too soon. They would never want to admit this to us however. There is no upside to it as long as they adhere to 'regulations'

I honestly don't think Pokerstars could pocket that money without pissing of regulators badly.


This actually explains it btw:
"In this specific case however, we are running a promotion where the additional prize money is being added by PokerStars. We do not decrease larger multipliers so that overall we can save a million in these games and then pay that out back to the players."

It's rake-money that finances the 1MM prizes. Not the money saved up from earlier spins.

"and while we have no way of knowing when this prize will actually hit, as it is completely random, we do guarantee that during this promotion at least one million dollar Spin & Go will happen"

Huh?

^Maybe there is an algorithm that makes it launch at least one 1MM spin in *time span*, but they have no way to know when it is that is selected.

So a line of code that decides, for example, that the first spin regged after *random time* is a winner.

yes but than the probabilities will not be independent anymore, ie if the 1M hasnt hit yet the last day of the promotion there will be a much higher chance per spin that it will hit.

I guess they only did this in the specific case where the 1M was not part of the normal multipliers like it now is (at 100s, not really aware on the situation at the lower stakes)

it goes nowhere, every spin is independently random. Nothings counting up missing buy ins. The 100's are suppose to be here to stay also so its not soem sort of time constraint for it to hit.

The promotion was going to continue running until the Million hit.

the times there is a surplus simply offsets the time there is a deficit.

The overall ev for the player pool is entirely as prescribed by the pay out probabilities.

The EV for stars is simply the rake.

The money they are adding to the promo is the free tickets they give out which essentially fund much of the overall prize pool.

There is no mechanism stars can use to ensure they 'profit' from the timing of random jackpots

They don't need to segregate money or appropriate from other buy-ins, the numbers look after themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkJJF3RTl-A
brazil girl won 1m dollar lastweek