"The indictment alleges how Bitar bluffed his player-customers and fixed the games against them as part of an international Ponzi scheme that left players empty-handed."



is that from the indictment or just the press release?
I read it as a lame attempt at a joke.

Perhaps we are just stumbling over terminology.

The new indictment does not merely add new charges. The new indictment contains all the old charges:

UIGEA Conspiracy
UIGEA
Operation of an Illegal Gambling Business
Conspiracy to commit Bank and Wire Fraud
Money Laundering Conspiracy

The money laundering charge has been split into two parts. Perhaps it is better to consider this an old charge and a new charge, IDK. What I meant was that money laundering was there before, and it is still there. I didn't read closely enough to determine whether they are alleging even more money laundering than before. The charge of money laundering per se is not new.

The conspiracy to defraud banks charge is the old bank and wire fraud charge. This is nothing new.

What is new is the three counts of wire fraud against players. There was nothing like that in the previous indictment.

The conspiracy to defraud banks charge and the money laundering charge already apply to PS and AP/UB (well individuals associated with them, really).

So if Pokerstar buys FTP, is there any way PS might try to recover the "phantom" deposits?

Obviously that would help paying back players alot.

IMO it sounds more like they said no one could win because there was no money to pay the winners.

Just last night I'd decided to spend a lot less time on 2+2.
FML

I would think no.

I wonder why Bitar actually turned himself in, what the penalties will be, and if players from FTP will ever see the money again...thoughts?

Where is Lederer in all this?

Sorry, cant be bothered to read entire thread right now, but if Bitar is on the block for this, certainly Howard is in a jumpsuit as well, no?

This makes the most sense.

If he quietly surrendered, that would be kinda boring, so DOJ had to add some hot sauce to the recipe.

DOJ likes holding up the checks with seized money for pictures, just like the DEA likes the pics with piles of seized heroin, just like the FBI likes photo ops with top fugitives being led away in handcuffs.

What happens afterwards is not front page material that the public gives a **** about. Alphabet groups want the flashy headline, so they can get an "attaboy" from john Q public.

He hired Judge Kaplan's former lawfirm to represent him (recuse?), these new charges are all based on 'fraud' that will have no victims once the PS agreement goes through, so this whole show of shock and awe is a complete orchestration to get passed having to face Judge Kaplan when they drop/non-prosecute/delay-prosecute Scheinberg's case.

Not only is this not 'bad' for our chances of getting repaid, this is a blatant signal that the DOJ is moving full steam ahead, while I'd give Bitar some credit for having the balls to turn himself in, I have no doubt the whole boarding the plane and request to deny bail was for show.

The DOJ has it's headline arrest, throw in getting players repaid and nobody will bat an eyelid when Isai gets a free pass.

Amazing turn of events. Havent seen this mentioned yet though:

Source

He may not have had a choice either way.

I don't think fraud goes away when a third party reimburses your victims. Also, plenty of people would have liked having access to their money over the past year, try telling people who could have really used the money that they weren't a victim.

For many people their bankroll wasn't just $, but their means of earning more money. Stealing that and then giving it back more than a year later is far from a victimless crime. It's analogous to firing somebody for a year for some sort of corrupt or criminal reason, giving them their job back a year later and saying: "Ok, we're even now." Obviously ridiculous there, and it's equally obvious here. Not to mention I'm sure the money will also be returned without interest and we'll be lucky be compensated for our non-liquid assets such as bonuses/points/medals.

Give me fair compensation in exchange for profits lost, mental anguish as well as a reasonable level of interest and some hefty punitive damages on top of all of that and then we can call it a victimless fairly compensated crime.

which could also mean the whole "hey a deal must almost be done or else why would he turn himself in?" sentiment may have been wrong

I recently said that I've counted the money as gone but still hope those responsible will be punished. It looks like today was a great step in that direction.

I'm not talking about justice, I'm talking about justification, they likely have wink nod deal that Bitar will plead to and be home by his 45th birthday, but for right now having arrested the perpetrator of a global ponzi scheme will deflect everyone's attention away from not making any UIGEA prosecutions for BF.

If everyone gets paid from PokerStars in return for FTP's assets, then repayment legally came from FTP so they can justify accepting a plead to a lesser charge.

LOL @ The new indictment, he said, could result in a sentence that would be "measured in decades.".....They carry a potential maximum prison sentence of 145 years upon conviction.

Hope this is closer to being sorted out though. Everything seems to be legit so I guess we'll just have to sit back and watch the events unfold.

Amazing

I said this in the containment thread. I'll say it here as well.


Not a chance in Hell Ray was unaware that there was greater than 99% chance he would face new chargers.

I can say with some confidences that the new charges are a PR stunt by the DOJ.. and Ray for that matter

That being said Ray will likely spend time in Jail. Less than 10 years.. less than 5 probably.

The DOJ gets the headline , money and can claim they saved US players...

It will be fascinating to watch how this plays out. I believe the script has already been written.

Yeah pretty much. As I said, I hope they give the victims of this crime a chance to speak or at least write a letter to the court. I'll have no problem telling Kaplin why Bitar deserves 145 years. At least he's were he belongs tonight. Hopefully, he stays there.

put this ****ing slob in a federal pound me in the ass prison

any short cliffs like about Howard and Chris are they also in simular situation as Bitar

If they have reliable information on which accounts and for how much $, I'd be surprised if they didn't deduct said phantom deposits from corresponding player balances where possible. They likely would have to eat losses on balances of 0 or less than what phantom deposits were made (which is probably a large majority).