Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip, Sponsored by Online Poker Report For poker news, views, and gossip Sponsored by Onlinepokerreport.com.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2010, 03:12 PM   #1
RKuczek
enthusiast
 
RKuczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Yuma, AZ
Posts: 51
Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

The Obama administration is proposing to change the rules regarding international electronic money transfers. According to a newspaper article today, current rules are that international electronic money transfers greater than $10,000 must be reported by banks to the feds, and banks must retain records on transfers greater than $3,000. The new rules would require that all international electronic money transfers be reported, regardless of the amount involved.



While the rules are intended to track possible money laundering and limit the ability of terrorists to move money in and out of the country, this would also mean all online poker wire transfers and bank wires would also be reported. Might make it a lot easier for the feds to spot payment processors, etc.
RKuczek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 03:36 PM   #2
pokaaface
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: laughing all the way to the bank
Posts: 726
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Think of the children!
pokaaface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 03:38 PM   #3
ItsRainingMen
master of your domain
 
ItsRainingMen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LET THE MARLIN SOARRRRR!!!
Posts: 21,759
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

link?
ItsRainingMen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 04:00 PM   #4
Kevmath
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: @Kevmath
Posts: 28,196
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/bu...ABrY6cRX+IWQ2Q
Kevmath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:23 PM   #5
Lord Snooty
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 122
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Surely the headline from the NYT article is "a requirement for banks to make weekly reports of all electronic money transfers into and out of the United States."

So imagine a report which shows poker generating $Xm of transfers a week and them thinking, "we want some of that"

But what is "electronic money"? If you transferred savings between on-line bank accounts would that count? Scary.
Lord Snooty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 08:05 PM   #6
captZEEbo
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
captZEEbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,988
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKuczek View Post
While the rules are intended to track possible money laundering and limit the ability of terrorists to move money in and out of the country
LOL they're still giving that **** and bull story? It's been the go-to PC story for long enough now, amirite?

Last edited by captZEEbo; 09-28-2010 at 08:12 PM.
captZEEbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 08:29 PM   #7
Always Rivers Me
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lost in the woods
Posts: 93
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Interesting and far-reaching implications imo.

This is another nail in the coffin of online poker. It will make enforcement and detection of American money transfers to poker sites outside the U.S. simple and easy.

Until now these transactions have flown under the radar as a result of the fact they were never reported.

If you transfer money to a company that is now linked to money laundering, you run a real risk of becoming entangled in any legal prosecution of that entity if your name is associated with it.

And now any financial association I have with that accused company will be transparent for the gov't to see.

I just withdrew my money from Stars, no joke.

I stand to lose too much if dragged into any investigations of money processors. I never worried about that before, but now it's obvious the climate is changing rapidly here in the U.S. and the gov't is increasing it's enforcement efforts across the board regarding illegal money transactions between entities operating outside American law.

I cannot take the risk to find out how far this will go. I sure as hell don't believe this law will be limited to "terrorism" investigations.

I just hope online poker is legalized in the U.S. soon.
Always Rivers Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 08:57 PM   #8
IamPro
one time Plz???
 
IamPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OUT YOUR POCKET MOOOTTTHAAA ****AAA
Posts: 17,584
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Why did I vote for this guy again???

Last edited by IamPro; 09-28-2010 at 08:58 PM. Reason: sigh, hope this doesn't pass/supported etc
IamPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 08:59 PM   #9
novahunterpa
Pooh-Bah
 
novahunterpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Triple Range Merging
Posts: 5,244
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPro View Post
Why did I vote for this guy again???
Change you can believe in
novahunterpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:33 PM   #10
mrrpb
banned
 
mrrpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,593
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPro View Post
Why did I vote for this guy again???
Because he's black and you're short a token black friend?
mrrpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:35 PM   #11
roxtar
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Podunk, Virginia
Posts: 508
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrpb View Post
Because he's black and you're short a token black friend?
+1
roxtar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:42 PM   #12
omgliekhax
grinder
 
omgliekhax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: PokerStars Doomswitch Dungeon
Posts: 492
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Rivers Me View Post
Interesting and far-reaching implications imo.

This is another nail in the coffin of online poker. It will make enforcement and detection of American money transfers to poker sites outside the U.S. simple and easy.

Until now these transactions have flown under the radar as a result of the fact they were never reported.

If you transfer money to a company that is now linked to money laundering, you run a real risk of becoming entangled in any legal prosecution of that entity if your name is associated with it.

And now any financial association I have with that accused company will be transparent for the gov't to see.

I just withdrew my money from Stars, no joke.

I stand to lose too much if dragged into any investigations of money processors. I never worried about that before, but now it's obvious the climate is changing rapidly here in the U.S. and the gov't is increasing it's enforcement efforts across the board regarding illegal money transactions between entities operating outside American law.

I cannot take the risk to find out how far this will go. I sure as hell don't believe this law will be limited to "terrorism" investigations.

I just hope online poker is legalized in the U.S. soon.
So you are suggesting that it is possible that the PS money processors can be implicated in money laundering and you can get dragged into it?

Just trying to figure out how this can implicate players in criminal activities..
omgliekhax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:44 PM   #13
LeapFrog
Pooh-Bah
 
LeapFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rosetta Stoned
Posts: 5,538
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Rivers Me View Post
I just withdrew my money from Stars, no joke.
this probably won't go into effect until 2012 retard. Most likely a troll (or shill) post anyway

Last edited by LeapFrog; 09-28-2010 at 09:47 PM. Reason: or shill
LeapFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #14
Always Rivers Me
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lost in the woods
Posts: 93
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by omgliekhax View Post
So you are suggesting that it is possible that the PS money processors can be implicated in money laundering and you can get dragged into it?

Just trying to figure out how this can implicate players in criminal activities..
If you transfer money from the U.S. to a money processor, and that money processor is operating outside American law, guess what?

You have committed a crime. You are a participant, willingly or not, in the illegal activities of said money processor. Before, this mattered little because these transactions were NEVER reported. Now, they will be.

The crimes that money processors have been prosecuted under are money laundering laws.

Under this new law, (and since it is being passed as a "terrorism fighting law, what are the odds it will be voted against???), every financial transaction with that processor will be reported to the Federal government. Even down to a $1 transfer.

That is not true today, but will be. Previously, only transfers above $10,000 were reported to the U.S. government.

That means your name will be involved in any possible prosecution of that money processor. In what capacity, I cannot say.

I, however, will not take that risk.

Also, what if that money processor also is prosecuted for ties to, say, organized crime? Or terror-related activities? Such as money laundering connected to a suspected charity group with terror "ties"?

The best attorney in the world won't save your ass then.
Always Rivers Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:17 PM   #15
ItsRainingMen
master of your domain
 
ItsRainingMen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LET THE MARLIN SOARRRRR!!!
Posts: 21,759
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

if i understand correctly this is ALL wire transfers being reported instead of some

how does this imply anything for online poker? wire transfers were already being made that met the threshold for being reported by banks
ItsRainingMen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:21 PM   #16
Always Rivers Me
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lost in the woods
Posts: 93
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
this probably won't go into effect until 2012 retard. Most likely a troll (or shill) post anyway
Believe whatever makes you feel better.

I have played online since 2004 and am a licensed health care professional. I won't be dragged before my state board due to this kind of stupidity.

You can bet on that.

Perhaps you don't have much to risk, but I do. And, yes, I withdrew my money from Stars.

I know the law isn't in effect yet. However, it will be. But at this point, it's clear which way the wind is blowing here in the U.S.

If you wish to roll the dice and take your chances with the constantly increasing legal enforcement taking place here in the U.S.......then, by all means, do so.

The window is closing. This new regulatory push isn't a joke, and it's not an accident. The trend is obvious.

Buck it at your own risk.
Always Rivers Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:30 PM   #17
LeapFrog
Pooh-Bah
 
LeapFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rosetta Stoned
Posts: 5,538
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

s

i

g

h
LeapFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:35 PM   #18
Jabba021
veteran
 
Jabba021's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 3,074
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

sympathy sigh
Jabba021 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:45 PM   #19
shug_bomb
adept
 
shug_bomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RIP bridge rail
Posts: 930
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Rivers Me View Post
Believe whatever makes you feel better.

I have played online since 2004 and am a licensed health care professional. I won't be dragged before my state board due to this kind of stupidity.

You can bet on that.

Perhaps you don't have much to risk, but I do. And, yes, I withdrew my money from Stars.

I know the law isn't in effect yet. However, it will be. But at this point, it's clear which way the wind is blowing here in the U.S.

If you wish to roll the dice and take your chances with the constantly increasing legal enforcement taking place here in the U.S.......then, by all means, do so.

The window is closing. This new regulatory push isn't a joke, and it's not an accident. The trend is obvious.

Buck it at your own risk.
OP is talking about PROPOSED legislation that hasn't even been drafted, let alone passed or placed into effect, for the sake of the discussion stop being an emotional dumbass

the only actual beat in here so far is that stars just lost another fish
shug_bomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:57 PM   #20
good2cu
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,511
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Rivers Me View Post
If you transfer money from the U.S. to a money processor, and that money processor is operating outside American law, guess what?

You have committed a crime. You are a participant, willingly or not, in the illegal activities of said money processor. Before, this mattered little because these transactions were NEVER reported. Now, they will be.

The crimes that money processors have been prosecuted under are money laundering laws.

Under this new law, (and since it is being passed as a "terrorism fighting law, what are the odds it will be voted against???), every financial transaction with that processor will be reported to the Federal government. Even down to a $1 transfer.

That is not true today, but will be. Previously, only transfers above $10,000 were reported to the U.S. government.

That means your name will be involved in any possible prosecution of that money processor. In what capacity, I cannot say.

I, however, will not take that risk.

Also, what if that money processor also is prosecuted for ties to, say, organized crime? Or terror-related activities? Such as money laundering connected to a suspected charity group with terror "ties"?

The best attorney in the world won't save your ass then.
Pokerstars has letters from 7 different American Law firms stating they are breaking no US law. Thinking that the US govt will go after the 10 million americans who play online poker is pretty paranoid.
good2cu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:08 PM   #21
DunlopFuzzy
banned
 
DunlopFuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: On a pair draw
Posts: 2,226
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

I thought the sites only really start wiring around the 10k mark anyways. What's scary is that cash processors like WU and Moneygram would report all international transactions 1K and up, instead of the 3K now.
DunlopFuzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 12:58 AM   #22
pineapple888
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Logistics Expert
Posts: 13,112
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

This worries me slightly less than a potential paper clip shortage.
pineapple888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 01:45 AM   #23
luxv
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 293
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Sorry to ruin your knee-jerk panic rants ARM but online poker is not illegal for players and has never been.

It's pretty unlikely that a law like this will pass and then hold up to court challenges anyways but if it did you have nothing to hide if you're just a player.
To me the biggest concern is how much the major poker sites are willing put to up with before the cost of doing business in the US outweighs the profit.
luxv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 03:22 AM   #24
Crane
adept
 
Crane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,168
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Why does the Bellagio always ask for my name anytime I cash out for $3000 or more?
Crane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 03:25 AM   #25
sqwerty12
banned
 
sqwerty12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sometimes at home, sometimes not
Posts: 5,565
Re: Proposed new rules for international electronic money transfers

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKuczek View Post
The Obama administration is proposing to change the rules regarding international electronic money transfers. According to a newspaper article today, current rules are that international electronic money transfers greater than $10,000 must be reported by banks to the feds, and banks must retain records on transfers greater than $3,000. The new rules would require that all international electronic money transfers be reported, regardless of the amount involved.



While the rules are intended to track possible money laundering and limit the ability of terrorists to move money in and out of the country, this would also mean all online poker wire transfers and bank wires would also be reported. Might make it a lot easier for the feds to spot payment processors, etc.
I wish this affected me but sadly it doesn't (or at least hasn't to date)
sqwerty12 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online