LOL. The US Attorney quoted actually only said he was worth 3-400mil. The 14K thing was a quote from an FBI agent.

This story doesn't flow...

- 3 weeks ago they are arrested for over half a billion illegal sports betting scheme.

- They are allowed to leave country following this arrerst.

- In just two weeks they set-up and arrange an enormous illegal operation in the middle of a Las Vegas casino. The casino doesn't asks questions, and helps them set up all the technology for the operation. Then casino has a change of heart decides to call the FBI.

- 8 guys get arrested, but "journalist" focus allegations on 2 of them.

- Phil Ivey's DIVORCE attorney represents defendants.

- They hold a $48million jet as bail collateral, but ask for an additional $2.5 cash for the father and son to be released. (Think about that...$50mil bail without any specific details of crime released.)

- For some reason the attorney names Robl as someone helping to raise $2.5mil for someone worth $350mil.

- The other 6 arrested are ordered held without bail, but there is no mention of why they are being treated different.

- No evidence they placed bets at Vegas casinos.

- Specifics of crime never given.

- They waited until the World Cup was over to make arrests.


We may want to wait for more accurate details to emerge. This story is sensationalized with large dollar figures and high profile names, yet hasn't offered a shred of real details.

Also, I'm going to take Tom Hall at his word that the 14k thing is bogus. (I have never heard of 14k prior to yesterday, so it didn't mean much to me anyways.) Tom has gone out of his way to contribute to this forum.

Apparently the new business model focuses on people with very little disposable income redeeming coupons from "Fun Books".

My understanding is that they are losing overall at poker. The idea of money laundering is to provide a plausible explanation for where dirty money comes from, and poker doesn't provide this explanation in their case.

I think there was a Perry Mason or other TV detective thing once where there was a blackmailer who met his victims once a year for a few hours in a private room at a casino. They sit there and read or whatever and at the end of the few hours he is supposed to have cleaned them all out in a card game (poker?) which he books as legitimate winnings and pays tax on. Of course the victims all team up to bump him off and then Perry Mason or Angela Lansbury gets involved and someone notices that the winnings were the same amount each year. Obviously we need to be vigilant for this sort of thing but the profile you would be looking for would be a person with cash game winnings (not losses) but relatively low apparent skill. There is another thread where Bilzerian is accused of this, although my own personal take on that particular case is that his skill level is probably relatively high compared to the megafish in the celebrity games he plays in. I also think that someone doing this would have such a low profile he may simply be unknown to the rest of the poker world.

TH> Naive? Possible, but unlikely. My family have been in HK for 150+ years and I'm part Chinese and they have been my friends for many, many years. This is not me being protective or biased. It's a fact. Like I said, I can't comment on the gaming stuff but on the 14K stuff I am pretty damn sure. If you have any fact or anything vaguely credible let me, or anybody else that actually knows them know, otherwise its the usual 2+2 BS which is what I detest about this site sometimes. I will bet you a year of whatever salary you earn that you have zero here and that part of the accusation gets dropped pretty quickly in Vegas (and I pay my 2+2 bets)

TH>The 14K are a very real criminal organisation, second largest triad group in the world after the Sun Yee On. Just because people are involved in betting and gaming in Asia doesn't mean they are gangsters. Most have government issued junket licenses or properly issued and regulated gaming businesses.

I also always struggle to understand these comments re money laundering and online sports books. It's virtually impossible to do. Land based and online casinos is a very more logical route (as several Las Vegas and other casinos have found out and been punished for).

Wasn't saying 14k was bogus. I was saying I would take you at your word that it is bogus that Phua was connected to them.

Sorry, wasn't supposed to be accusatory. I got what you were saying. got pissed at the comment made by the other guy. Got to stick with my friends, even more so when times are tough.

1 guy bet 51.5 million. Caesars would book 1% of this tops on World Cup and that may be a reach. Contrary to what some in this thread presume, Vegas books are the nuttiest on the planet. Most will only take 1500 on a tv Cbb total. My bar room local swiftly has higher limit on most sports than any book in Vegas, with the possible exception of Cantor gaming. Harrahs properties are the worst.

I may have read somewhere that he is backed in Macau by the guy he put the $$ up for

You guys realize Vegas casinos have to get clearance to take a $300 bet, right?

Can u book that kind of action in china and not be part of a triad?

Tom i bet if they were involved in triad stuff they would keep it private from you.

Honestly i bet phua is smart enough to have someone else handle the booking stuff and not actually get his hands dirty.

And only cleared if u are a pit sucker.

That's what I thought initially, but my experience living in Eastern Europe is that while you never get direct information you just know who is legit and who isn't and pretty much everyone else does regardless of whether or not they can prove it. Tom's local experience is very relevant here, much more so than if it came from a random western poker player.

well that's not true.

ibid.

What do you mean by this?

Thanks for pointing out that my hyperbole isn't true.

The point is, people asking "Why didn't the guy that bet $50M on the World Cup game just walk up to the wicket and bet there" might be missing something.

BTW, I bet $1k on a WC game and the ticket taker had to call her boss for approval.

I was thinking the same thing I don't understand what he means either.

Friendly wager or not they were breaking the law and need to be punished as such. However, you do bring up a valid point that the authorities don't crack down on these smaller wagers nearly enough. People seem very cavalier like they are above the law because they just talk about these illegal bets openly at the poker table. It would be nice if the feds did some undercover stings to really put a stop to this illegal activity once and for all.

No wonder triad draw is so popular these days.

Most interesting thread on 2plus2 in ages, i'm also very intrigued as to what background Paul Phua has in business and why he needs $1.5M off robl lol.

I think it would be crazy to assume an illegal gambling syndicate dealing in 100's of millions of $ would have absolutely no ties to organised crime in a country with some of the biggest crime gangs itw.

if true, it's hard to feel sorry for them. they got jammed up in Macau, then fly to the US to do the exact same thing. Sports betting isn't illegal in NV, but doing it without a license is real bad, and out of a casino no less, using casino borrowed equipment. I guess money can't buy a scrap of common sense. There's a big difference between some million dollar vig free bets with your rich friends and an eight man bookmaking operation. If it's the former, I hope it works out for them. If the latter, I assume they are going to get blasted hard due to the raw numbers involved. The vig alone is probably 10-25M, pretty incredible. If I were him, I'd be hoping the Chinese government doesn't get involved too much. These are the kind of high profile cases they would love to make an example of.

Right, this seems like the best use of the FBI's resources.

Two guys sitting at a poker table making bets has to be stopped immediately or the fabric of our society will crumble in no time.

Rather the law is dog **** and should be changed to something reasonable and logical.

So the LVRJ article is completely different than what was initially posted, but you guys already caught on to that.