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Old 03-17-2012, 07:24 AM   #301
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by Aqalung... View Post
I agree with you, hard not to.
That said, though, why is it that most opinions here are focused more on the future and not the present ? Isn't the NOW as important as the TOMORROW ?
Absolutely not. The thread is about a parenting view. A parenting view is a long-term mentality, not short term.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:46 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Aqalung... View Post
I agree with you, hard not to.
That said, though, why is it that most opinions here are focused more on the future and not the present ? Isn't the NOW as important as the TOMORROW ?
I'm not sure why one cannot focus on BOTH the present and the future. I agree with the prior poster that parenting tends on the side of the long term perspective.

If this is about short term decisions than your issue is fundamentally simple: should this person be playing poker right now or not? If you remove any future consideration when answering that question it becomes a moral one instead of a strategic one. Think about it.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:54 AM   #303
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
A parenting view is a long-term mentality, not short term.
Well...I haven't read the book on parenting, yet.
Seriously, I believe the view of a parent is based on the parent's life experience. Therefore, any advise given by a parent is subjective and not always beneficial to their son or daughter. There are parents who would like to have their children follow in their footsteps and there are other parents who advise their children not to.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #304
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Absolutely not. The thread is about a parenting view. A parenting view is a long-term mentality, not short term.
I think you are wrong, parenting doesn't have to be a long term mentality. My parents in particular have always encouraged me to do what was right for me at the moment. They would often highlight long term implications of what I was planning but only to ensure I had fully considered the options before carrying out an action.

They have always been of the mentality that "you're a long time dead", essentially you have to decide what is the right choice for you now.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:40 AM   #305
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

I would think through experience of going through thought processes that most big decisions are thought of in short term and long term perspectives. It's hard to make a choice without thinking of the implications long term. Especially when it comes to jobs/income/career.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:31 AM   #306
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
This is nonsense. Nothing about poker "gets you a great life lesson in business". Nothing about poker "leads you to a great and successful life".

It may teach you about risk and probabilities and bankroll management, but it surely doesn't do anything to help business skills, period. Working in the actual "working world" helps you with these things, not poker.

Things like working on securing financing, business plans, management structure, presentations, building client relationships, regulatory compliance, human resources, legal issues etc all come from actually having exposure to it through the corporate world. None of these (except possibly building client relationships, which is a stretch) come from poker, and all of them are essential to running a successful business, small or big.

I think too many of you throw out these statements and ideas because you've heard them so often, but if you really think about it they simply don't apply. The only direct aspect that would apply would be risk management.
well done
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:54 PM   #307
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Obviously when you add a wife, gf, and kids things change.
Yes, things can get very expensive, in many ways, with a wife and gf.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:49 PM   #308
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by intheireye! View Post
Ill go ahead and give a well reasoned response...

If the yr was 2004/5 and he was a focused, smart and realistic kid, id say awesome...good for him.

If it were post UIGEA, say 2008, and he knew/had great evidence of being able to make 6 figures a yr, id say it was a good idea for him to play until the games caught up to him.

In our BF world, a world where bankrolls can evaporate overnight with no recourse, a world where the main game is becoming slowly solved and less and less worth beating and where tournament vig is so out of control that fields are shrinking domestically and casual players are giving up the game at mid and higher stakes, id say you better hope he has a plan B.


Now if the kid is ok with the idea of playing live, not having insurance provided for him, being at the mercy of other people as far as when to play, and making 50k/yr or something, thats fine. If OTOH he thinks what he makes now, say X, is somehow indicative of what hell be making at Y time...then he is deluding himself.

This, for most, isnt a long term solution as far as career...its a temporary situation where you may or may not be able to make a living doing something you enjoy...and you take on costs by forgoing career development. Those costs WILL have reprecussions down the road...there will be a piper to pay and doors that simply wont be open to you in many cases.

As long as he understands that...so be it.
Truth is being told IMO.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #309
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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There's also a lot of people in America who can't imagine someone subsisting in less than $62k a year, because they go through life spending more than they have no matter how much they make, and can't fathom that all of the superfluous luxuries that they're used to because their parents afforded them aren't actually necessary to live.
More truth being told IMO. When you get right down to it you don't need much to exist. For those who look down at others less fortunate or who are addicted to consumption it just not that way. You can live a good, productive, healthy, and happy life without making a lot of $$. You start by not comparing yourself to others and not being envious/jealous. Here's the hard question you need to answer - What do you want out of life? Chasing money / power just makes one chase more money and power in a never ending cycle -- sounds like fun - NOT!
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:13 PM   #310
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by intheireye! View Post
The is about approximately exactly opposite of reality here on earth on 2012.

Of course im assuming the person is decently bright and puts equal amounts of effort into career development as he would have put into poker development....which is hard to sort of quantify, but whatever.

EDIT: 30 dollars an hr playing poker is definitely making a living, and for many people it might be the best option for them right now given the economy...what is/should be disconcerting isnt the rate but the direction of the rate which generally is going down for MOST players who arent jumping stakes.
"and for many people it might be the best option for them right now given the economy"

Poker is a 0 sum game. At a 10 player table in order for 1 person to make $30/hr after the house takes it's rake/drop (conservatively call that $60/hr) the other 9 players must lose $10/hr.

Let's not fool ourselves - the above is reality. Sometimes the truth is hard to face. Especially when we're inundated by the media with dreams.

My post might sound as if I'm not agreeing with the post I'm replying to. That's not the case ... I'm just hoping to modify it a little. I agree with the post.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:53 PM   #311
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by Loki7 View Post
I regularly play poker. I made 30K last year. You'd be a fool not to hire me because of that. I am a top performer in my job (IT), always been. I am competitive and have a strong drive for excellence. I am more motivated than most of my co-workers and have been promoted to a leadership position because of that. The same reason I am good at my job is why I started playing poker and got moderatey good at it. Would I be more effective in my job if I didn't play poker? Probably. I always had hobbies outside of work/study though, so if I didn't lose sleep over poker I'd lose it over something else. Not sure if it would make that big of a difference. Also many people with no addictions/passions whatsoever still lose sleep because they stay up late watching TV etc. It's a question of discipline more than anything else.
I didn't consider any of this in my prior posts. Good points if OP's son conducts himself as you do.

But a standard normal curve can be applied to anything and everything in life where you have enough trials to employ the central limit theorem.

So the attributes you identify in yourself have a mean and standard deviation. In my mind, and this is just a guess, you're probably an out-lier to the right of the mean. 68% of the population are within 1 standard deviation of the mean. 95% are within 2. This is a guess: You're probably 4 or 5 standard deviations to the right which equates to a VERY VERY SMALL proportion of the population.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #312
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by FreakShow View Post
My Son's not born yet, but when he is he'll have two choices: Baseball or Poker.
Depressing and I hope it's a level. We all know about poker (the whole 'if I knew then what I know now' thing) and baseball is a 1:500,000 chance. Hopefully that son that's not born yet is not on the way yet either, and you'll grow up a bit before that does happen, no offense.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:49 PM   #313
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

I regularly play poker. I made 30K last year. You'd be a fool not to hire me because of that. I am a top performer in my job (IT), always been. I am competitive and have a strong drive for excellence. I am more motivated than most of my co-workers and have been promoted to a leadership position because of that

ive argued for people playing poker but this doesnt make much sense
while some poker skills would be applicable to certian jobs being a top performer against a bunch of drunken idiots doesnt qualify you for a job, especially when many of those people dont play often and are playing for fun
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:21 AM   #314
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by P0nzi View Post

ive argued for people playing poker but this doesnt make much sense
while some poker skills would be applicable to certian jobs being a top performer against a bunch of drunken idiots doesnt qualify you for a job, especially when many of those people dont play often and are playing for fun
so playing 1/2 NL at a local casino requires the same skill set as playing MSNL online?? Don't think anyone is saying beating 1/2 live requires much of a brain
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:34 AM   #315
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by SNGplayer24 View Post
Everyone should pursue their dream instead of getting a degree and grinding it out 60+ hours a week for minimal pay......the great thing about poker even if your only mildly successful is you get a great life lesson in business and can open alot of doors to other opportunities......

glad to see someone going for their dreams and ultimately will lead a great and successful life.
I disagree. Going to college is something most people want, but most people don't have the money and usually manage to just stay above total poverty during it with an additional low paying job. Being able to earn something on the side with poker means you can do college, enjoy life and not waste time working in a burger restaurant every evening. If you get that opportunity you should take it.

And most poker players have no idea about running a business except the usual unrealistic fantasy. They only have a vague idea of buying an existing business or giving a random guy with a great idea a few hundred thousand and then staying away from it, hoping it'll become successful all by itself. A real business requires a lot of time and hard work, and qualities like managing people, teamwork etc. are not learned by playing poker alone. If you want to invest and then not do any work, just buy blue chip stocks.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:29 AM   #316
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
And most poker players have no idea about running a business except the usual unrealistic fantasy. They only have a vague idea of buying an existing business or giving a random guy with a great idea a few hundred thousand and then staying away from it, hoping it'll become successful all by itself. A real business requires a lot of time and hard work, and qualities like managing people, teamwork etc. are not learned by playing poker alone. If you want to invest and then not do any work, just buy blue chip stocks.
This is very well said.

There is really no connection between poker and business.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:40 PM   #317
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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In before son goes busto...
Son confirmed busto.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:58 AM   #318
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
I'm not going line by line to reply to your post, I'll just condense it into my viewpoint.
"I don't try to understand your view. I'll just repeat myself."


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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Many children, if you leave them alone, will waste time doing nothing.

Parent involvement in work ethic and education are the key factors in creating a likely positive outcome.
You obviously didn't read my post.

I'm not advocating to leave your child alone. And I'm not advocating that you don't instill work ethic or education in your child. I never said or wrote that. Please try to quote me if you bring up this kind of nonsense.

You either mix my posts up with somebody else's. Or you just read into them what you want to see.


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I can't disagree more with the above.
How can you disagree with my post if you didn't read it?

The funny thing is that I agree with a lot of things you say. Parent involvement, self confidence, belief in their own abilities, work ethic etc. If you would actually read my post you would probably see this.

But instead you start talking about work ethic and education when I'm actually talking about life choices. Those are two very different things.

My son can't chose not to go to school. He has to. He can't chose not to take the trash out, help me in the garden or clean his room. Those are not choices. Those are duties. Like any other member of our family. But if he want's to become a doctor, a cook or a poker player. That is his choice. Not mine.


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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Like I said, I couldn't disagree with you more on every single point you've made.
Like I said. You didn't read my points. So it's lolworthy that you disagree with them


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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
You make these feel-good statements like "I want my kid to think for themselves!" which really amounts to nothing. Those words don't mean anything, it's a cliche. People really learn to think for themselves when they can see truth, when they can see situations clearly for what they are.
How will they learn "what they are" if you insist on making the important choices in their lifes?
Do your children only see the situation "clearly for what they are" when they see the world through your eyes?


Like I said above. I agree with most of your points. I never argued against them. And I have no idea why you bring work ethic etc. into the discussion. So I'll leave those points.

But I disagree on a few of your statements:

You said that you would do anything humanly possible (basically manipulate/pressure) your child away from a career as a poker player. (And at the same time bring up Tiger Woods/professional golfing as a positive example which is pretty lol on it's own.)

I disagree with this. If my child (or cousin, or niece or nephew) choses a career I'll support them. And it's not my place to make that decision. I'll obviously argue with them. And I won't lie to them. I will tell them exactly what I think about it. But the same way I would talk to an adult friend. Btw. if any of my friends would tell me he wants to become a professional poker player I would tell them that I think it's a stupid idea and that he shouldn't do it. But in the end it's their decision to make.

If you're afraid that they make "the wrong choice". Then you should ask yourself what your parenting actually achieved. You have 16-18 years to raise your kid to be able to make those decisions. Is that not long enough? When are they old enough? 21? 25? 35? You have to trust your kids and your own parenting skills.

You said that children like to take the easy route.

I partially disagree with this. Yes they try to get around things they don't like to do (like all of us, you too). Mainly duties ("taking out the trash", "doing homework" etc.) But you have to look at them when it's not about duties but "passions". Kids work HARD when they want to achieve something. I know a kid that chose physics at the age of twelve(!) in a dead poor farmer family. He had to leave his family (!) and live on his own so he could keep attending school (more or less 3rd world country). He left his home country for Germany at the age of 22 (alone, no family, tiny financial support). He worked, studied, made his phd in nuclear physics, married, raised two boys and is living a very successful life. I know so many kids that were allowed to make their own life and excelled.

When I chose my career (IT) I was completely alone. Bill Gates proclaimed that "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody". Nobody that my family knew owned a computer, nobody at my school owned a computer. Nobody knew jobs that you could get with just programming. In the eyes of my father it was a stupid idea to become an IT engineer. He still supported me. Because it was my choice.

Kids are like little self fullfilling prophecies. You'll be amazed at what they can and want to do at a very young age. And if you give them responsibilies and duties at a very young age they are happy to fullfill their part. And they grow with these responsibilities.

There are two driving forces: carrot and stick. Motivation and punishment. Motivation always trumps punishment! But it's so much harder to motivate than to punish. Another downside of "the stick" is that it creates resistance. And that is what your friend and you observe. That is why so many kids don't make anything out of their lifes in the end.

Like I said. You'll be a father soon. Wait for it. Suddenly you'll hear your child say "I can do that! I want to do that!". And he or she won't even be 3 years old!
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #319
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

It takes alot to be a professional poker player, as much if not more than many decent paying professional career/jobs out there. Who is to judge, parent or otherwise, someone making a living doing something they like?

And regarding likelihood of success, poker can also be compared to starting up a business...it's great to succeed, but it's ok to fail.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #320
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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"When I chose my career (IT) I was completely alone. Bill Gates proclaimed that "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody".
Actually that's not true. On old 8088/8086 PC's MSDOS would recognise as much memory as you had, up to 768K (because the monochrome video card was at 0xC0000). Less compatible machines like the DEC Rainbow could even handle 960K.
Then IBM introduced the EGA graphics card with the IBM PC/AT, with its memory at 0xA0000. People protested that that limited the maximum memory to 640K, and supposedly an IBM spokesperson said that 640K should be enough at a conference. That has however never been verified, and years later people started attributing this quote to Bill Gates.
However if you google for it, you'll find just as much claims that Gates said it as there are statements that Gates denied he was the one that said that.

Last edited by RNauta; 03-21-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #321
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Re: My son is a professial poker player...a parent view

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Originally Posted by Palikari View Post
"I don't try to understand your view. I'll just repeat myself."




You obviously didn't read my post.

I'm not advocating to leave your child alone. And I'm not advocating that you don't instill work ethic or education in your child. I never said or wrote that. Please try to quote me if you bring up this kind of nonsense.

You either mix my posts up with somebody else's. Or you just read into them what you want to see.




How can you disagree with my post if you didn't read it?

The funny thing is that I agree with a lot of things you say. Parent involvement, self confidence, belief in their own abilities, work ethic etc. If you would actually read my post you would probably see this.

But instead you start talking about work ethic and education when I'm actually talking about life choices. Those are two very different things.

My son can't chose not to go to school. He has to. He can't chose not to take the trash out, help me in the garden or clean his room. Those are not choices. Those are duties. Like any other member of our family. But if he want's to become a doctor, a cook or a poker player. That is his choice. Not mine.




Like I said. You didn't read my points. So it's lolworthy that you disagree with them




How will they learn "what they are" if you insist on making the important choices in their lifes?
Do your children only see the situation "clearly for what they are" when they see the world through your eyes?


Like I said above. I agree with most of your points. I never argued against them. And I have no idea why you bring work ethic etc. into the discussion. So I'll leave those points.

But I disagree on a few of your statements:

You said that you would do anything humanly possible (basically manipulate/pressure) your child away from a career as a poker player. (And at the same time bring up Tiger Woods/professional golfing as a positive example which is pretty lol on it's own.)

I disagree with this. If my child (or cousin, or niece or nephew) choses a career I'll support them. And it's not my place to make that decision. I'll obviously argue with them. And I won't lie to them. I will tell them exactly what I think about it. But the same way I would talk to an adult friend. Btw. if any of my friends would tell me he wants to become a professional poker player I would tell them that I think it's a stupid idea and that he shouldn't do it. But in the end it's their decision to make.

If you're afraid that they make "the wrong choice". Then you should ask yourself what your parenting actually achieved. You have 16-18 years to raise your kid to be able to make those decisions. Is that not long enough? When are they old enough? 21? 25? 35? You have to trust your kids and your own parenting skills.

You said that children like to take the easy route.

I partially disagree with this. Yes they try to get around things they don't like to do (like all of us, you too). Mainly duties ("taking out the trash", "doing homework" etc.) But you have to look at them when it's not about duties but "passions". Kids work HARD when they want to achieve something. I know a kid that chose physics at the age of twelve(!) in a dead poor farmer family. He had to leave his family (!) and live on his own so he could keep attending school (more or less 3rd world country). He left his home country for Germany at the age of 22 (alone, no family, tiny financial support). He worked, studied, made his phd in nuclear physics, married, raised two boys and is living a very successful life. I know so many kids that were allowed to make their own life and excelled.

When I chose my career (IT) I was completely alone. Bill Gates proclaimed that "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody". Nobody that my family knew owned a computer, nobody at my school owned a computer. Nobody knew jobs that you could get with just programming. In the eyes of my father it was a stupid idea to become an IT engineer. He still supported me. Because it was my choice.

Kids are like little self fullfilling prophecies. You'll be amazed at what they can and want to do at a very young age. And if you give them responsibilies and duties at a very young age they are happy to fullfill their part. And they grow with these responsibilities.

There are two driving forces: carrot and stick. Motivation and punishment. Motivation always trumps punishment! But it's so much harder to motivate than to punish. Another downside of "the stick" is that it creates resistance. And that is what your friend and you observe. That is why so many kids don't make anything out of their lifes in the end.

Like I said. You'll be a father soon. Wait for it. Suddenly you'll hear your child say "I can do that! I want to do that!". And he or she won't even be 3 years old!
is he iranian and hunted by US ?
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