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Originally Posted by wil318466
I'm not going line by line to reply to your post, I'll just condense it into my viewpoint.
"I don't try to understand your view. I'll just repeat myself."
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Originally Posted by wil318466
Many children, if you leave them alone, will waste time doing nothing.
Parent involvement in work ethic and education are the key factors in creating a likely positive outcome.
You obviously didn't read my post.
I'm not advocating to leave your child alone. And I'm not advocating that you don't instill work ethic or education in your child. I never said or wrote that. Please try to quote me if you bring up this kind of nonsense.
You either mix my posts up with somebody else's. Or you just read into them what you want to see.
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Originally Posted by wil318466
I can't disagree more with the above.
How can you disagree with my post if you didn't read it?
The funny thing is that I agree with a lot of things you say. Parent involvement, self confidence, belief in their own abilities, work ethic etc. If you would actually read my post you would probably see this.
But instead you start talking about work ethic and education when I'm actually talking about life choices. Those are two very different things.
My son can't chose not to go to school. He has to. He can't chose not to take the trash out, help me in the garden or clean his room. Those are not choices. Those are duties. Like any other member of our family. But if he want's to become a doctor, a cook or a poker player. That is his choice. Not mine.
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Originally Posted by wil318466
Like I said, I couldn't disagree with you more on every single point you've made.
Like I said. You didn't read my points. So it's lolworthy that you disagree with them
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Originally Posted by wil318466
You make these feel-good statements like "I want my kid to think for themselves!" which really amounts to nothing. Those words don't mean anything, it's a cliche. People really learn to think for themselves when they can see truth, when they can see situations clearly for what they are.
How will they learn "what they are" if you insist on making the important choices in their lifes?
Do your children only see the situation "clearly for what they are" when they see the world through your eyes?
Like I said above. I agree with most of your points. I never argued against them. And I have no idea why you bring work ethic etc. into the discussion. So I'll leave those points.
But I disagree on a few of your statements:
You said that you would do anything humanly possible (basically manipulate/pressure) your child away from a career as a poker player. (And at the same time bring up Tiger Woods/professional golfing as a positive example which is pretty lol on it's own.)
I disagree with this. If my child (or cousin, or niece or nephew) choses a career I'll support them. And it's not my place to make that decision. I'll obviously argue with them. And I won't lie to them. I will tell them exactly what I think about it. But the same way I would talk to an adult friend. Btw. if any of my friends would tell me he wants to become a professional poker player I would tell them that I think it's a stupid idea and that he shouldn't do it. But in the end it's their decision to make.
If you're afraid that they make "the wrong choice". Then you should ask yourself what your parenting actually achieved. You have 16-18 years to raise your kid to be able to make those decisions. Is that not long enough? When are they old enough? 21? 25? 35? You have to trust your kids and your own parenting skills.
You said that children like to take the easy route.
I partially disagree with this. Yes they try to get around things they don't like to do (like all of us, you too). Mainly duties ("taking out the trash", "doing homework" etc.) But you have to look at them when it's not about duties but "passions". Kids work HARD when they want to achieve something. I know a kid that chose physics at the age of twelve(!) in a dead poor farmer family. He had to leave his family (!) and live on his own so he could keep attending school (more or less 3rd world country). He left his home country for Germany at the age of 22 (alone, no family, tiny financial support). He worked, studied, made his phd in nuclear physics, married, raised two boys and is living a very successful life. I know so many kids that were allowed to make their own life and excelled.
When I chose my career (IT) I was completely alone. Bill Gates proclaimed that "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody". Nobody that my family knew owned a computer, nobody at my school owned a computer. Nobody knew jobs that you could get with just programming. In the eyes of my father it was a stupid idea to become an IT engineer. He still supported me. Because it was my choice.
Kids are like little self fullfilling prophecies. You'll be amazed at what they
can and want to do at a very young age. And if you give them responsibilies and duties at a very young age they are happy to fullfill their part. And they grow with these responsibilities.
There are two driving forces: carrot and stick. Motivation and punishment. Motivation always trumps punishment! But it's so much harder to motivate than to punish. Another downside of "the stick" is that it creates resistance. And that is what your friend and you observe. That is why so many kids don't make anything out of their lifes in the end.
Like I said. You'll be a father soon. Wait for it. Suddenly you'll hear your child say "I can do that! I want to do that!". And he or she won't even be 3 years old!