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Old 08-24-2013, 02:43 PM   #26
Restless-Eggs
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
Sort of off-topic, but Matusow was awesome yesterday. In that interview he talked about a few other topics (which are being saved for another video), so it took up about half of his break. Immediately afterward a handicapped guy (I think he had cerebral palsy) asked for a picture, and Mike spent some time taking pictures and talking to him. I think he had like 3 minutes to himself when it was all done.

DN is well known for being nice about that stuff, but Mike deserves some credit too.
Mike has sent me 500$ for a trivia once. I bought his book, and it is really good.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:21 PM   #27
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by JerseyPoker869 View Post
Re entry's most likely make it easier for rec players. 1 being tney can have a few buyins to run hot or just keep buyin back In until tney get cards.
exactly. because we all know a lot of rec players that like to take multiple shots at 5k buy in tourneys
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:26 PM   #28
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

So your stance is players with more buy ins have an advantage, clearly . Sure some people satellited in but if your gonna blow 5k on a tournie as a rec player I'm sure your wealthy. Also tneres this crazy idea of playing a 5k without rebuys.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:40 PM   #29
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

No one is forcing you to play in a re-entry tournament. There are a million poker tournaments going on at any time all around the world. Just don't play it it and play in a freeze-out one instead. I do agree that re-buy tourneys only help those with deep pockets, pros and the house but it's not like freezeouts aren't being offered. Unless the rec players enter the rebuy tourney not realizing the implications of it but oh well.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

Somehow, i don't think Jersey gets it
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:10 PM   #31
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

Rebuys exist because the Jerseys of the world don't get it.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #32
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Old 08-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #33
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

my question is if Mikey thinks it's so bad why did he show up and contribute to the prize pool?
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:20 PM   #34
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

wow mike the mouth actually making sense one time
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:44 PM   #35
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by BustedNuts16 View Post
my question is if Mikey thinks it's so bad why did he show up and contribute to the prize pool?
You get there, unpack, and grab the schedule, and see that all the events are "Players may enter / re-enter for 8 levels , 2 hours".
He can afford rebuys. And it's even better because he plays well. But he doesn't have to like it.

------
The $5,300 Main has 3 starting days.
Re-entry allowed for first 9 levels (40 min)
"Players may play in any or all starting flights, and choose their best stack."


I don't like them because rebuys hide a player's stack. Most of it might be in his pocket. Or, it might not. You can't know.

Last edited by joeschmoe; 08-24-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:17 PM   #36
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by joeschmoe View Post
Rebuys exist because the Jerseys of the world don't get it.
People assume rec players don't have money. Of course a person with more re buys has an advantage, no sh*t. The correct statement is the above, not it benefits pros. Also after a certain amount of rebuys it gets to help the peopel collecting those chips. If a person can afford the 5k and decides to play a rebuy he knows what he's getting into. This site loves to try and protect "the fish" from themselves, it gets a bit much. Also many rec players have much more money then the poker pros
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:20 PM   #37
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by BustoPro View Post
Many players with a LAG-type style are at a pretty big disadvantage if they can't chip up early because they can't threaten their opponent's TOURNAMENT LIVES!!1!!!!1!!1 So they hate to see a bunch of huge stacks getting built because a few rich pros decide to gambool it up.

Plus see my previous post for a more detailed analysis.

Personally, I'm just as happy playing a TAG, shorter-stack style, letting the LAGs and degens throw a bunch of money into the prize pool, and taking my chances with my one or two bullets. With a little luck these can be very profitable spots.
+1
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #38
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

Actually starting to respect this guy with interviews like that.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #39
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Respect for MM. I like his perspective regarding all attributes to the topic, including what it would be like to have to knock Ivey out of the same tournament 7x, and that the rebuys just generate more rake, regardless of the concerns of collusion/cheating.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:58 PM   #40
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by Phoenixchef View Post
or a better chance of having the AA you were waiting for crushed by the 72o by the person who's re-bought the last 14 hands.
this is fish logic at its finest
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:01 PM   #41
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by IhateJJ View Post
assumption: good players are more likely to re-enter than bad players

the math: If you had a coin that was weighted 60/40 to heads, and were allowed to bet heads on only one flip, you are in a theoretically profitable position but with high variance. If you are allowed to bet heads over and over again, you will win with 100% certainty over the long run. Apply this principle to reentry tournaments.
Yes, if only good players would re-enter than that would be bad. It would create more rake and cause more money to be withdrawn from the economy.

However I don't think it's that simple.

1. Good players will bust less frequently than bad players and thus naturally should have less oportunities to re-buy

2. Lots of recs are also going to re- enter especially when it's a special tournament

3. Is entering late not also is disadvantageous

4. There are many other advantages such as increased prize pools, more liquidity and more chances for recs to deposit into the economy


To me it feels like there are many opinions here but not that many comprehensive and well thought out explanations.

The Ivey example I think is very much misunderstood. If Ivey enters the game 7 times he is likely turning himself from a winning player into a losing one (if not a less winning player). While it certainy makes sense for him personally, looking at the tournament this is a good thing, especially for the losing players as they have a higher chance of winning.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #42
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by BustedNuts16 View Post
my question is if Mikey thinks it's so bad why did he show up and contribute to the prize pool?
MONEY! From what i understand he did not know the details until after he arrived to the casino anyway.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:31 AM   #43
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

I am amazed at the utter lack of basic tournament poker math knowledge present in this thread.

There are positive and negative aspects to re-entry tournaments, but you all are focused on "ability to win" as opposed to what really matters, ROI and EV.

When you allow a pro to re-enter over and over, you're allowing them to play more tournaments within a certain time frame. You are *not* giving them an increased ROI. In reality, those pros who would play recklessly because they can just re-enter actually have a *lower* ROI for each individual tournament. They likely don't mind though, because their EV through entering 10 tournaments with a 20% ROI is greater than their EV entering 1 tournament with a 50% ROI.

The way re-entry tournaments hurt the ROI of amateurs (and pros) is by increasing the % of pros in the field. What might be a field of 400 pros and 100 amateurs might become a field of 1600 pros and 200 amateurs. However, there are a variety of upsides to these tournaments as well which at least offset the downsides to some degree.

Where I do agree with Mike is the issue of collusion and chip smuggling. Multiple days should use different chips and the dealers should be trained to spot potential collusion. If someone is suspected of collusion, they should be barred from further re-entry (and this policy should be made very clear to all players).
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:57 AM   #44
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

But there is no "Return"... nor is there any "Value" to be gained or lost during the rebuy period. We are miles away from seeing any money. The only value is in surviving.

My 72o is a big favorite against your AA when I get 17 shots at it. If you're only gonna fire one bullet, the greatest value lies in your not playing.

-----

Values and percentage-plays are meaningless before the poker tournament starts. It doesn't start until after the rebuy period is over.
Prior to that, it's just a battle of the pocketbooks. Whoever can and will throw the most money at it gives himself the best chance. In a very real sense, it doesn't matter how you play during the rebuy period.

I know you're referring to some life-long strategy, playing multi-millions of hands, games and tournaments, and in that respect I agree.... but how about winning this tournament?
What's the proper strategy? Rebuy as many times as possible.

Last edited by joeschmoe; 08-25-2013 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:10 AM   #45
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The pros that re-enter probably aren't spewing but playing higher variance...taking flips , tripple barelling in an earlier stage....another reason these tourneys suck

To the guy saying ivey is going to be a losing player bc he rebuys stop posting forever...if ivey can accumulate a big stack his edge is going to be massive especially late stages.

Last edited by 89diamonds; 08-25-2013 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:12 AM   #46
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by joeschmoe View Post

My 72o is a big favorite against your AA when I get 17 shots at it. If you're only gonna fire one bullet, the greatest value lies in your not playing.
not really, because if AA doubles 2 or three times that player will have 5x average stack and will be able to survive a few all in situations in the future when someone "cracks" him with reckless style
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:50 AM   #47
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by Armandinho View Post
not really, because if AA doubles 2 or three times that player will have 5x average stack and will be able to survive a few all in situations in the future when someone "cracks" him with reckless style
Sure, "if" AA somehow (it doesn't matter how) gains lots of chips, his chances may be improved. (I say "may" because he can double and still be a vulnerable short stack.)

But if we isolate the rebuy factor, and consider it alone, the guy who takes 17 shots at you has nearly a 16X better chance of surviving than you do.

All in is all in. Pot size doesn't matter. AA stack size doesn't matter. AA cannot afford to lose even one all-in, while 72o can lose 16 of them.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:55 AM   #48
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

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Originally Posted by joeschmoe View Post
But there is no "Return"... nor is there any "Value" to be gained or lost during the rebuy period. We are miles away from seeing any money. The only value is in surviving.

My 72o is a big favorite against your AA when I get 17 shots at it. If you're only gonna fire one bullet, the greatest value lies in your not playing.

-----

Values and percentage-plays are meaningless before the poker tournament starts. It doesn't start until after the rebuy period is over.
Prior to that, it's just a battle of the pocketbooks. Whoever can and will throw the most money at it gives himself the best chance. In a very real sense, it doesn't matter how you play during the rebuy period.




I know you're referring to some life-long strategy, playing multi-millions of hands, games and tournaments, and in that respect I agree.... but how about winning this tournament?
What's the proper strategy? Rebuy as many times as possible.
+1, well put sir
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:19 AM   #49
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Re: Mike Matusow on potential chip smuggling, collusion, re-entry thoughts at SHRPO

he should be more concerned with the cookie crumbs all over his shirt
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:26 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BustoPro View Post
Many players with a LAG-type style are at a pretty big disadvantage if they can't chip up early because they can't threaten their opponent's TOURNAMENT LIVES!!1!!!!1!!1 So they hate to see a bunch of huge stacks getting built because a few rich pros decide to gambool it up.

Plus see my previous post for a more detailed analysis.

Personally, I'm just as happy playing a TAG, shorter-stack style, letting the LAGs and degens throw a bunch of money into the prize pool, and taking my chances with my one or two bullets. With a little luck these can be very profitable spots.
This is correct
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