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Old 05-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #101
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

I will host it on my site when I get home.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #102
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Anyone have any pointers about where Leggett discusses damage control over this? We are all here to try and get Iovation out of the business but Leggett is another potential future issue. Who is the one closest to mic? It's hard to follow without knowing the setup.
I suppose I can tease the film some here. Our research is going to paint Leggett more favorably than we previously planned. I don't feel he was able to make 100% remunerations but this full audio and other evidence we have gained shows pretty clearly that Oregon/Toronto held all the cards (we have the full list of refunds for instance). There is pretty clear evidence that Leggett pushed for and got a lot more refund money for players than Pierson's team wanted to return. I fault him for willingly selling the company line too hard in trying to get past the scandal in 2008 but give him points for holding the stakeholders feet to the fire with what little leverage he had. He also made a lot of rookie PR mistakes including Sebok, though the Prahlad move was pretty genius.

The last great mystery to this case is the people who pulled the Costa Rican flunkie Zoltan Rozsa's strings from the US. Travis is all over the map in his testimony but doesn't seem to possess clear evidence the company paid blackmail to hush up the crime. Our film goes into it including the Nazis, the mob, the real estate and why we had to wait 5 years to hear the real deal.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #103
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

also, who was the one recording this?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:21 PM   #104
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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I suppose I can tease the film some here.
Our film goes into it including the Nazis, the mob, the real estate and why we had to wait 5 years to hear the real deal.
WHEN? Please, WHEN? If you miss this segue....

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Old 05-10-2013, 11:22 PM   #105
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

unbelievable
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:26 PM   #106
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

FFS this is sickening, the leader of Iovation is talking about ways to get out of paying cheated players (if I am following which one is him). This all falls on Verifi/CAMS and needs to be rectified immediately. They have clearly failed in making online poker in NV secure. It is unfortunate the good people at UP are stuck in the middle here.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #107
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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unbelievable
Just wait....

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
FFS this is sickening, the leader of Iovation is talking about ways to get out of paying cheated players (if I am following which one is him). This all falls on Verifi/CAMS and needs to be rectified immediately. They have clearly failed in making online poker in NV secure. It is unfortunate the good people at UP are stuck in the middle here.
Don't be so sure..
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #108
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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I suppose I can tease the film some here. Our research is going to paint Leggett more favorably than we previously planned. I don't feel he was able to make 100% remunerations but this full audio and other evidence we have gained shows pretty clearly that Oregon/Toronto held all the cards (we have the full list of refunds for instance). There is pretty clear evidence that Leggett pushed for and got a lot more refund money for players than Pierson's team wanted to return. I fault him for willingly selling the company line too hard in trying to get past the scandal in 2008 but give him points for holding the stakeholders feet to the fire with what little leverage he had. He also made a lot of rookie PR mistakes including Sebok, though the Prahlad move was pretty genius.

The last great mystery to this case is the people who pulled the Costa Rican flunkie Zoltan Rozsa's strings from the US. Travis is all over the map in his testimony but doesn't seem to possess clear evidence the company paid blackmail to hush up the crime. Our film goes into it including the Nazis, the mob, the real estate and why we had to wait 5 years to hear the real deal.
Perhaps he survived this scandal better than expected but in the end he was running an online poker room that was trading while insolvent. He surely knew it and some/most/all of the financial damage came from paying players in their cheating scandals and the money was never recouped so it all ties together. Had he gotten players paid back 100% it just would have been sooner they went broke - Is that a safe assumption?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:35 PM   #109
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Perhaps he survived this scandal better than expected but in the end he was running an online poker room that was trading while insolvent. He surely knew it and some/most/all of the financial damage came from paying players in their cheating scandals and the money was never recouped so it all ties together. Had he gotten players paid back 100% it just would have been sooner they went broke - Is that a safe assumption?
They must have really thought Paul was a piece of **** then, because early on (its second hand relayed comments) but Pierson says that Paul is on board in trying to minimize the amount paid. If thats better than expected, you have real low expectations.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #110
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

http://watch.betraisefoldmovie.com/?...46340616,d.cGE
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:42 PM   #111
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Bacardi, can you please take your noise somewhere else? NGCB will be reading this thread and the OT discussions make it less useful. Regardless of the Iovation issue UB and UP are not the same company. Your constant posting of the same flawed opinion does not change that.
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I'm not sure what else you would like to be posted in the thread if you don't approve of Bacardi's posts. It has been established that there is a (revolting) connection between Ultimate Poker and former UB operators through their age verification process. NGCB can find that easily in the first several posts IF they decide to look at this thread. That is the end of that issue as far as I can see. What other information concerning this could possibly be further damning or worth posting? Bacardi is continuing research into other questionable connections this company has, which is not only on topic but a service to the community. I hope he continues posting.
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Perhaps he survived this scandal better than expected but in the end he was running an online poker room that was trading while insolvent. He surely knew it and some/most/all of the financial damage came from paying players in their cheating scandals and the money was never recouped so it all ties together. Had he gotten players paid back 100% it just would have been sooner they went broke - Is that a safe assumption?
Bit of an about-face on this, no?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:42 PM   #112
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
FFS this is sickening, the leader of Iovation is talking about ways to get out of paying cheated players (if I am following which one is him). This all falls on Verifi/CAMS and needs to be rectified immediately. They have clearly failed in making online poker in NV secure. It is unfortunate the good people at UP are stuck in the middle here.
Where are you listening to this? I keep getting a 509 error.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:42 PM   #113
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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They must have really thought Paul was a piece of **** then, because early on (its second hand relayed comments) but Pierson says that Paul is on board in trying to minimize the amount paid. If thats better than expected, you have real low expectations.
But thats not what happened. They were trying to bound it at $5M and the final output was over $22M of which you got a nice amount. In other words, Paul was clearly not on board but yeah facts.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #114
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

I am working on getting it uploaded on another site and elevengrover you dont have a clue in life why has it taken you so long to make your little video
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:53 PM   #115
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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I am working on getting it uploaded on another site and elevengrover you dont have a clue in life why has it taken you so long to make your little video
Lol, because you criminals were able to withhold evidence of your crimes for so long??? You were Russ Hamilton's computer guy for gosh sakes. Your moms, your wife and you all pulled big dollars out of the site. You got real estate and other compensation. So you tell me why its taken so long?
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:54 PM   #116
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Paul knew alot more then you think he never even talked about his own customer rep stealing right out of users accounts he just ignored that no refunds no mention of it you release your tape I will release that zoltan is real
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:57 PM   #117
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

This thread and the UB smoking gun thread may need to be combined.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:58 PM   #118
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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But thats not what happened. They were trying to bound it at $5M and the final output was over $22M of which you got a nice amount. In other words, Paul was clearly not on board but yeah facts.
I am just saying what was mentioned in the recording, you've been the guy doing the 4-5 year documentary so I'm sure you have more information than me - but early on someone says that Paul is on board in trying to minimize things but Norton will want to pay out the real number.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:09 AM   #119
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Just wait....



Don't be so sure..

Exactly , its all an insider's game and clearly they at the very least did no research into a pretty significant portion of their legal poker operation ! It is a huge fail imo , and they don't deserve to be the face of legal poker in the us .
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:30 AM   #120
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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I am just saying what was mentioned in the recording, you've been the guy doing the 4-5 year documentary so I'm sure you have more information than me - but early on someone says that Paul is on board in trying to minimize things but Norton will want to pay out the real number.
Yeah, its been about 13 months for the film but it does feel like 4-5 years of seriously following the case. I'm not saying Leggett gets a pass. I'm saying that out of all the involved actors, he gets brushed as worse than his actions warrant. The UB founders (ie Greg guided by Dan) slowrolled the investigation to the point they pissed off people who were willing to do more to get past the scandal. They went out of their way to make Leggett look stupid and compromised by laying those bs stories about RAID failures off on him. The guy who truly looks evil is Uri Kozai for covering all the tracks.

Even Net Loss is not a completely wrong notion when you consider that all players (even superusers) lose in the blinds. But when you hear them talking about using Net Loss to hide cheating and to repay less, Leggett obviously didn't go along willingly. One of the things that has taken a lot of time recently was we did a significant statistical random sampling on the player refunds and ultimately concluded the money they claimed mostly got paid back.

Pierson's single greatest strength appears to be an ability to turn a monster into nut low for most everyone around him while still dragging the big pots for himself and his closest cronies.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:11 AM   #121
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Entire video here, link active in 10 minutes.


Last edited by PartyGirlUK; 05-11-2013 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:44 AM   #122
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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Hopefully this will lead to a new background investigation of Iovation by the NGCB.
At the minimum. They should be judged unsuitable.

That they passed muster of the NGCB at all is reprehensible.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:46 AM   #123
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

Don't expect the NGC to care who is involved with companies that UP uses for peripheral support (i.e. not central to the operation of the game itself), presuming they don't already know. It will be up to us, the players, to be educated and make good choices about who we trust and give our bank, credit card, and other personal information to.

The NGC can not, and will not, vet every company or person UP does business with. It is up to US to INSIST that UP (all Pokersites) deal only with companies and people that are beyond OUR reproach.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:23 AM   #124
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

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At the minimum. They should be judged unsuitable.

That they passed muster of the NGCB at all is reprehensible.
Iovation does NOT have a license to operate in NV. They are a subcontractor of CAMS/Verifi, the company that does hold the license. I understood that the regs required subs that provided substantial services to be approved though but I see no evidence that ever happened. I suppose the decision to get involved with Iovation will be very damaging to CAMS/Verifi's ability to do convince other companies to use them. There is no doubt UP wishes this had not happened.

I would imagine it is not possible to get out of this agreement at least until after the testing period and would be happy to be proven wrong there. Until then every person that creates an account at UP is giving Greg Pierson, someone implicated as heavily involved the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal, their SSN and other personal info.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:30 AM   #125
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Re: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB

mediafire is very slow and not taking all the file types any other sites for hosting
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