Hi all

Interesting read here: http://www.pokerlistings.com/patrik-...-an-edge-12872

Cliffs:

- PA says Manila is the new Macau for high stakes poker
- the high stakes games PA has played have dried up
- nlh and PLO is no longer beatable without poker software, but for now mixed games may be
- PA will play anyone live, but not online

Live poker is the future.

Yeah he's not wrong homies

It is sad. As an American I've toiled away trying to make it work online and it's damn near impossible to "make it" NLHE if 1) you have a normal job; and 2) you can't go 1 year without an income. Even then it's brutal. There just isn't enough volume and types of games available. I can't even play SNG at any reasonable volume if I wanted to.

It would be better if they would make all software illegal and not offer hand histories. (Or at least just high level hand history). It's drastic but would be good for the games IMO and while obv there would be cheaters, they could find them over time. It would be the classic cat and mouse game that existed from the beginning.

Another thing it amazes me that some of these old school pros say they played so long without tracking or HUD ... Wonder if that's true but if so it's very impressive.

How about if you use software it's not a fair game.

americans sites are some of the softest in the world, i mean bovada is anonymous ffs.

what pa is saying is true, sure, however the average nvg reg needs to stop blaming software, you are clearly just not that good if you cant beat the softest online games in the world....

The statement "if you dont use software its not a fair game anymore" implies that its only a fair game if everyone is using software and that not using software is unfair. A+ thread title

It's no longer a game if we're letting software play the game for us all the time. I agree: live poker is the future. Congratulations to everyone who made a living hacking and multi-accounting people to ruin. You're all geniuses and I wish you great fortune in your forgotten future.

Obv most of 2+2 knows what PA says is true for the stakes he plays

However, Antonius is a relentless sandbagger.

Antonius crushed for well over a $1mill profit last year online, and he has barely put any volume in this year.

People have always tried to find an edge be it poker or any other competitive thing. drugs, cheating, etc nothing is really immune. Saying software like huds or tournament analysis is unfair is like saying mj training in the gym is cheating ,cause he puts the time and the effort to his improve his game. He doesn't get payed to workout he gets payed to shoot on the court. Most athletes pay more to eat healthier and get vitamins,though they don't have to a lot want the extra edge in the game. People crying about software is idiotic you can just play the game like a rec, but don't expect to be gifted an easy profit without the effort and cost then more dedicated players.

Patrick plays soley on listening to his chi in his body, he said it in other words but I can't re-find the interview anywhere. Anyway - based on that - it's no surprise he finds software useful, the man is a tennis player , not some kind of game theory master,

=

"damn it, I can´t beat the game anymore, this is so unfair"

YAWN

CREV - $99
flopzilla - $35
HM2 - $100
Note Caddy - $90
Note Caddy Edge - $99
Table Ninja - $150
Pro Poker Tools - $89
Run It Once coaching - $100 /mo
Deposit - $500


You're now ready to play 10NL

Ha ha so true.

As much as I agree that it would be nice if games stayed softer longer because people didn't mass exploit opportunities to make short term money (at the long term expense of others), can you really blame them? I see a lot of people holding this anger towards people who "ruined the game" but it feels like a waste of energy to me.

I say kudos to them for doing what they set out to do, and kudos to the guys who try to keep the game going strong.

I wonder if journalists complain that they can't use typewriters anymore or if boxers complain that they can't win without putting in some cardio workouts.

A lot of nonsense itt

[X] Games beatable confirmed

So is cheating or the use of software the problem? Because people using the HHs info to win are the people who work their s off to beat the games, the use of software is just an excuse. U people are simply saying, "I cant beat smarter people so it's not fair", what do you think will happen if online poker sinks? Where do u think these online pros will go to? That's right, to your currently soft live game, then u wont win anything either way.

The use of software is inevitable, u r playing in a digital platform in an increasingly digital world, adapt or die, that is the harsh truth, not just in poker, but in everything else as well. U want poker to be your easy escape route from the world's reality, guess what, it's not, u have to work hard just like in everything else.

"if you don't own the software company it's not a fair game anymore" - Patrick Antonius

I'm a big PA fan but honestly he just sounds kind of butthurt to me. Tracking software has been around for almost a decade now, it's not like people weren't using it 5 years ago, especially at high stakes. He makes it sound like it's some new issue that now everyone has software so he can't beat the games anymore. I'm sure 90% of regs in his games were using tracking software 5 years ago.

Patrick isn't talking about HEM or PT. He means software which tells you what do to in exact spots etc. Those GTO dream machines.

lol so much this

+1
Much more in-depth strategy involved with HUDs; endless stats to chose to look at to gain an edge on your opponent. It's generally Americans and people who are less intelligent that want software banned. Everybody making a living playing online poker likes/needs HUDs and fish aren't going to be bothered anyway as they're playing to have fun (and lose money) anyway. It's not as though a HUD is going to greatly help most of them; but even still, it's really not expensive to buy HM2, it's not even a monthly subscription!
I really hope Stars don't see this thread or listen to any of the anti-HUD players, then again, I'm almost certain that none of their regular customers
are against them anyway.
Also worth adding that hand tracking helps hugely in identifying bots.

Haha, awesome. Sums it all up really

Lol'd but not really the case though. I only use HM2 (I'm probably going to get Stars Helper soon) and have one of the better win rates at 100nl this year.

you just have to accept that online poker and live poker are not the same games. online = tons more information...getting good at storing and sorting that information and knowing how to efficiently use it is a huge part of the game. No need to complain about it, just pick the one you prefer.