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Old 07-22-2010, 11:30 PM   #1
wubbie412
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Harrah's is in trouble...

Moody’s: The Only Hope for Harrah’s is an IPO

http://www.pehub.com/77982/moodys-th...ahs-is-an-ipo/
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:47 PM   #2
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbie412 View Post
Moody’s: The Only Hope for Harrah’s is an IPO

http://www.pehub.com/77982/moodys-th...ahs-is-an-ipo/
Didnt realize they were having trouble, Kinda boggles my mind how these casino companies struggle - they know exactly how much there going to make simply by what is being wagered, IE for every 100 bucks wagered they know exactly what there take will be - so how the hell can you **** that up, dont overforecast and your fine. simple game imo
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:55 PM   #3
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by GamblingMan View Post
Didnt realize they were having trouble, Kinda boggles my mind how these casino companies struggle - they know exactly how much there going to make simply by what is being wagered, IE for every 100 bucks wagered they know exactly what there take will be - so how the hell can you **** that up, dont overforecast and your fine. simple game imo
Overexpand? They're not just in the gambling business, they're also in the resort business. When you take out billions to build a hotel in the red-hot real estate market that goes empty, you can sink pretty quickly.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #4
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

So what happens when the recession goes double dip and harrahs declares bankruptcy. Still a november 9?
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:14 AM   #5
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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So what happens when the recession goes double dip and harrahs declares bankruptcy. Still a november 9?
The WSOP brand is a tiny fraction of the Harrah's Corp. Harrah's only option is an IPO but in this economy and their very poor balance sheet an IPO would have dismal results.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:16 AM   #6
ShipDaSherb
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

"the company’s annual interest burden consumes around 90% of property income"

lolz


"There's no way a smart person can go broke except through borrowed money. All borrowed money does is, it may help you get it a little faster, but it can help you get poorer a whole lot faster."

- Warren Buffett
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:18 AM   #7
hendersonpokerguy
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Meanwhile, the fat ass running the place is making multiple millions every year so he can feed his face at El Pollo Loco and In and Out Burger.

They can take their IPO and stick it. Its a joke of a place, and their sportsbook should just quit with all their silly rules too.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:22 AM   #8
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

They've been restructuring debt for some time now, and they will be publicly traded again in a few months:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-offering.html
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:23 AM   #9
Jobless23
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

All of Harrahs properties are basically crap. They deserve to go broke.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:26 AM   #10
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

They need another Wantanbe to blow 200 mill+
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:26 AM   #11
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

its all about debt. the apollo group bought harrahs at the high of the market and created about 28 billion dollars of debt. not a good situation. many of the properties are getting run down and dirty looking because of the cost cutting. i was at caesars sports book a month ago and was appalled at the torn leather on many of the chairs. this is not a good sign for such a premier property. mgm is not in much better shape with the debt of citicenter. they basically bet the company on citicenter. lots of times big egos get in the way of big deals. say what you want about steve wynn his financing is always in place before the shovel goes into the ground. lvs stock and wynn stock are excellent buys. forget apollo group and mgm. only the top execs will reap large profits. tk
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:33 AM   #12
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

The mafia would have never had this problem. Perhaps Harrahs should hire them as consultants. Never mind, they can't afford it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:36 AM   #13
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtonyk1234 View Post
its all about debt. the apollo group bought harrahs at the high of the market and created about 28 billion dollars of debt. not a good situation. many of the properties are getting run down and dirty looking because of the cost cutting. i was at caesars sports book a month ago and was appalled at the torn leather on many of the chairs. this is not a good sign for such a premier property. mgm is not in much better shape with the debt of citicenter. they basically bet the company on citicenter. lots of times big egos get in the way of big deals. say what you want about steve wynn his financing is always in place before the shovel goes into the ground. lvs stock and wynn stock are excellent buys. forget apollo group and mgm. only the top execs will reap large profits. tk
I agree with this as I stayed in the 'New" Westgate towers last trip and all thoughthe room was killer the service sucked ballz! Room service closed at 10pm elevators that where broken and all they did was stay open with that annoying bell and wind tunnel sound..maids that never semed to come...yadda yadda.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:42 AM   #14
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Harrahs blows, venetian is way better
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:13 AM   #15
prescottburgess
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

i thought the house always wins?
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:21 AM   #16
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingMan View Post
Didnt realize they were having trouble, Kinda boggles my mind how these casino companies struggle - they know exactly how much there going to make simply by what is being wagered, IE for every 100 bucks wagered they know exactly what there take will be - so how the hell can you **** that up, dont overforecast and your fine. simple game imo
They didn't run bad at blackjack. People spent less in their casinos/hotels/whatever else than they expected.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:31 AM   #17
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by NoahSD View Post
They didn't run bad at blackjack. People spent less in their casinos/hotels/whatever else than they expected.
Well no **** the didnt lose @ blackjack. Point is running a casino should be an easy game, hard to lose money when your the house. You can only do it by overextending yourself - and thats what 90% of these companies are doing.

Like I said running a casino should be an easy game, ask Steve Wynn
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:14 AM   #18
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

When your basic business model is ripping people off you will only ever go about it half-assed.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:19 AM   #19
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by GamblingMan View Post
Well no **** the didnt lose @ blackjack. Point is running a casino should be an easy game, hard to lose money when your the house. You can only do it by overextending yourself - and thats what 90% of these companies are doing.

Like I said running a casino should be an easy game, ask Steve Wynn
Running a restaurant should be an easy game too, I guess. It's hard to lose money when people give you money for food! And you always know how much money they're gonna give you for each meal!

Did you consider that some of the stuff in casinos costs the casino money. Like all those people with name tags, for example, or the gigantic buildings in the middle of the desert that need to be air conditioned and supplied with food (including sea food somehow...), or the interest on all the loans that they had to take out to build gigantic fancy buildings in the middle of the desert.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:26 AM   #20
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Tom Peters View Post
So what happens when the recession goes double dip and harrahs declares bankruptcy. Still a november 9?
Come to think of it, if Harrahs files for Bankruptcy, the final table participants may be treated as unsecured creditors. In that case, they would only get a fraction of their prize money. The main reason this wouldn't happen is if Nevada gaming law requires prize money to be set aside, but I don't know how that works.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:10 AM   #21
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by iron81 View Post
Come to think of it, if Harrahs files for Bankruptcy, the final table participants may be treated as unsecured creditors. In that case, they would only get a fraction of their prize money. The main reason this wouldn't happen is if Nevada gaming law requires prize money to be set aside, but I don't know how that works.
They've taken $4 million+ rake for the ME, the WSOP is a major media event, and that prizepool is sitting in a bank account getting interest. They will get paid; don't worry about that.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:10 AM   #22
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD View Post
Running a restaurant should be an easy game too, I guess. It's hard to lose money when people give you money for food! And you always know how much money they're gonna give you for each meal!

Did you consider that some of the stuff in casinos costs the casino money. Like all those people with name tags, for example, or the gigantic buildings in the middle of the desert that need to be air conditioned and supplied with food (including sea food somehow...), or the interest on all the loans that they had to take out to build gigantic fancy buildings in the middle of the desert.
all the seafood is fresh from lake mead

also restaurants have very low profit margins
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:11 AM   #23
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Insigniared View Post
They've taken $4 million+ rake for the ME, the WSOP is a major media event, and that prizepool is sitting in a bank account getting interest. They will get paid; don't worry about that.
well it's sitting somewhere earning .0001% or whatever they paid out for interest last year.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:18 AM   #24
iron81
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

The thing is, If Harrahs files, whether they get paid may not be up to Harrahs. For normal bankruptcy, a Bankruptcy Judge decides who gets what money back and there generally isn't enough to go around. All of the other creditors have a claim on Harrah's accounts. Like I said, the main unknown is the gaming regs.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:33 AM   #25
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Re: Harrah is in trouble...

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Originally Posted by hendersonpokerguy View Post
Meanwhile, the fat ass running the place is making multiple millions every year so he can feed his face at El Pollo Loco and In and Out Burger.

They can take their IPO and stick it. Its a joke of a place, and their sportsbook should just quit with all their silly rules too.
Going there in 2 weeks and plan to do some sports betting. What are their silly rules and what book should use if not Harrahs.
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