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Old 07-18-2008, 01:37 PM   #1
amulet
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Fulltilt Management failing?

If you look at http://www.pokerscout.com you will see that Fultilt is now doing about 50% of the business PokerStars is doing. The change in business has been happening steadily for the past 6 to 9 months. This should deeply concern Fulltilt's owners because less then a year ago FT was almost even with PS.

Normally, shareholders would demand changes in strategy or insist in bringing in new management (professional management).

On top of the above, FT has now has it's first public cheating scandal.

Again, if the shareholders were business people or money managers vs poker players they would be demanding answers and letting management know they are failing.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:38 PM   #2
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

pokerstars +1million
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:39 PM   #3
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

What is this cheating scandal you speak of?
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:47 PM   #4
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Style View Post
What is this cheating scandal you speak of?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ltilt+cheating

Please don't hijack this thread, that thread is still open.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:56 PM   #5
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet View Post
On top of the above, FT has now has it's first public cheating scandal.
From reading the other thread it appears to have been a collusion ring (if the allegations are true). You probably should have mentioned specifically what type of cheating was involved. Though it does sound better the way you put it, right?
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:17 PM   #6
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet View Post
If you look at http://www.pokerscout.com you will see that Fultilt is now doing about 50% of the business PokerStars is doing. The change in business has been happening steadily for the past 6 to 9 months. This should deeply concern Fulltilt's owners because less then a year ago FT was almost even with PS.
Jack Bando posted this in NVG a bit back. Do the numbers match yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bando View Post
Numbers of cash game players daily peaks:Stars-Tilt-Party

Prior to UIGEA (Oct. 8, 2006 - Oct. 12, 2006) 9,713 4,623 10,746
Prior to Neteller closing (Jan. 13, - 17 - 2007) 14,781 7,480 8,595
Neteller closed to US ( Jan. 19 - 23'07) 12,636 5,797 8,320
March 1st - 5th, 2007 Average 13,300 6,239 10,894
April 1st - 5th, 2007 Average 12,154 6,720 10,963
June 1st - 5th, 2007 Average 13,458 7,969 8,971
2007 WSOP TV (July 16-20 ) 13,209 8,981 8,232
August 15-19, 2007 Average 13,279 8,292 7,433
WSOP ME on TV (Sept 1-5, 2007) 14,087 6,266 9,392
1 year UIGEA (Oct 1-5 of 2007) 14264 7682 8391
November 1st-5th, 2007 16310 8109 7865
February 1st - 7th, 2008 22161 11857 9092
March 1st - 7th, 2008 22406 11129 9159

Stars is 2x as big pre UIEGA, and recovered from NT closing in 8 months and is stronger than ever. Tilt is 3x bigger and recovered from NT faster. Party is almost back to pre UIEGA strength. This isn't counting tourney players. (Stars is having record turnouts for their Sunday MTTs though)

Epassporte pullout:
Pokerstars 22,613 prior pullout & 22,843 after = 1% increase
Fulltiltpoker 9982 prior pullout & 9975 after pullout = ~ 0% change
UlB 2912 prior pullout & 2204 after pullout = 24% decrease
Absolutepoker 1941 prior pullout & 1952 after pullout = .5% increase
Micro 1802 prior pullout & 1434 after pullout = 20% decrease
Cake Network 1927 prior pullout & 1809 after pullout = 6% decrease
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:40 PM   #7
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

it should be pointed out that according to pokerscout, FTs peak cash for July 16th was

July 16 1:56 PM 12342

2007 WSOP TV (July 16-20 ) 13,209 8,981 8,232

Failing...
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:43 PM   #8
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

I just transferred the last of bankroll from TIlt to Stars this week. Got disconnected 3x w/18 players< left in 2k+ runner tournament, potentially cost me 1000's of Dollars. This has never happened to me on Stars and continuously does on FTP, I have high speed Comcast and top of the line equipment no ****ing excuse.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:51 PM   #9
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shareholders? is fulltilt a public traded company.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:54 PM   #10
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

lol, comcast.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:57 PM   #11
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kassdog View Post
shareholders? is fulltilt a public traded company.
No. But the owners of Tiltware are shareholders.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:58 PM   #12
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
This should deeply concern Fulltilt's owners because less then a year ago FT was almost even with PS.
I don't remember this ever being the case.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:00 PM   #13
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbs View Post
I don't remember this ever being the case.
If Jack Bando's pokerscout numbers are correct, neither does pokerscout...
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:10 PM   #14
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
If Jack Bando's pokerscout numbers are correct, neither does pokerscout...
Looking at those numbers Full Tilt has almost always been <50%. Regardless, I sincerely doubt FTP management or the shareholders are all that concerned when they've doubled their clientele the past year.

Not sure what OP's vendetta is all about.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:21 PM   #15
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

PokerStars PWNs Full Tilt Poker. 100%
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:25 PM   #16
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulet View Post
.......

Normally, shareholders would demand changes in strategy or insist in bringing in new management (professional management).

On top of the above, FT has now has it's first public cheating scandal.

Again, if the shareholders were business people or money managers vs poker players they would be demanding answers and letting management know they are failing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kassdog View Post
shareholders? is fulltilt a public traded company.
possibly confusing, but no FTP isnt public. op's point seems to be if they had shareholders instead of phil ivey/ferguson/whoever owning the company there would be a dif approach over there.

as far as if theyre failing, i would say with all the $$ they spend on advertising they will always keep new players coming in. altho recent threads on here make me wonder if their inept support has finally reached the tipping point for the players on FTP who have rakeback.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:35 PM   #17
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

The fact that FT has most of the big named pros, the biggest games online and still is dramatically behind Stars in terms of numbers should tell you everything you need to know.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:39 PM   #18
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBucksIndy View Post
The fact that FT has most of the big named pros, the biggest games online and still is dramatically behind Stars in terms of numbers should tell you everything you need to know.
Uh, how so? They have virtually no presence overseas.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:40 PM   #19
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

This thread is FAILING.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:43 PM   #20
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.giggles View Post
This thread is FAILING.
QFT
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:43 PM   #21
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBucksIndy View Post
The fact that FT has most of the big named pros, the biggest games online and still is dramatically behind Stars in terms of numbers should tell you everything you need to know.
It tells me they don't have as many .05/.10 and $1 SNG's going as stars. Tilt is doing just fine hanging on to its market share. Another conspiracy thread started with no proof of actual stats. As for the "public cheating scandal" you can bet there is collusion on PS as well. The true test is to see what they do to prevent and/or penalize those caught.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:04 PM   #22
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atm_smasher View Post
As for the "public cheating scandal" you can bet there is collusion on PS as well. The true test is to see what they do to prevent and/or penalize those caught.
+1
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:18 PM   #23
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

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Originally Posted by JaviSRK View Post
lol, comcast.
I agree, they do suck balls.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:46 PM   #24
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

If you look at the Full Tilt page on pokersitescout you can see that Full Tilt has grown substantially over the last 6 months. 6 months ago they were averaging 7K players, now they are averaging 8K. If the entire site consisted of just the 1K players in growth, it would be the 12th largest site. Full Tilt is doing fine.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:49 PM   #25
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Re: Fulltilt Management failing?

Responses to the above posts.

I have no vendetta against FT, many of the people who run it are friends. However, I have had private conversations, and now I have gone public with my concerns about management.

Poker Stars has shown dramatic growth in comparison to Fulltilt over the last year. That is somewhat alarming.

FT is growing overseas, but needs and wants to grow at a faster rate. They are in the process of launching a new initiative aimed at the overseas market.

Royce is correct, I believe that if many of their shareholders were not the sponsored pros, the management would be questioned. If it had professional money mangers invested, or was public, the accountability would be different, and their would be serious questions based on performance.

I believe that Poker Stars is better managed, and therefore, and shown more growth, has better customers service, etc.
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