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Old 09-02-2011, 04:41 PM   #1876
early325
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by random user View Post
It would appear that you are suggesting that a moderator here could track my ip address, find out where I live, and then because they had weapons training I should somehow not comment if I think the moderation is a bit heavy handed.

You Americans are a funny lot. This sort of attitude pretty much sums up why you are in the position you are now tbh.
No, you just don't understand [American] humor.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:45 PM   #1877
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker View Post
If the DoJ was able to operate a payment processor, perhaps it should get involved in partial ownership of a poker site so it can make $$$ and players can get paid
Nah, that's too much work! They like easy money.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:46 PM   #1878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa View Post
This is incorrect.

It is mentioned in the indictment that stars "miscode" CC transactions. Read the Civil Case against the principles including Poker Stars Schienberg as worked with and directed others to apply incorrect transaction codes to their respective poker companies.

Also it mentions Stars specifically when talking about phony e-commerce websites being set up to trick disguise the transactions, including phoney jewelry, clothing, bicycles and golf clubs. Not to mention all the other fraudulent means the DOJ accuses PS as being part of to move money in the US.
I stand corrected. I read Para 19, but must've skipped Para 18.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:48 PM   #1879
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

That's some SN you got there brother.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:58 PM   #1880
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedaSon View Post
No clearly they are guilty until proven innocent.... They were accused in 21st century America.

Seriously though, its highly unlikely a trial will ever occur for these people. They are facing 10-20yr sentences, you be would naive to think they will not plea bargin their way out of this, several have already accepted guilty pleas and the most interesting of all Daniel Tzvetkoff is sitting around in a safe house just waiting to testify against them should they decide to face this in court....however, probably none will ever see a court room except to give a statement of contrition to a judge or enter a plea. For the rest, they will stay on the run and unless they get caught, which I suspect is unlikely they will either buy a pardon 20+yrs down the road or just evade capture for the rest of their lives. But yes, you are correct, in a perfect world they are innocent until proven guilty. But since when is this a perfect world? Are they guilty? Philosophically thats not for me to decide, really its just for God and themselves, but one thing is for sure, they acted in a massively irresponsible manner losing 100s of millions of dollars of player money all the while regularly lying to people on their web site (you can still find these pages if you look for them) telling them that their money was safe, when it clearly was not. We find that to be the most Damning indictment of all. As for are they guilty of Bank Fraud? We think the publicly available information speaks for itself, you make your own inference or wait for the guilty plea or the trial you seem to think will actually happen.

If you read what a nosism was then you will have your answer to your question regarding the inside track.
Magnanimous - I thank you.

"Therefore law grows numb, and
justice never goes forth. Because the
wicked one is surrounding the righteous
one, for that reason justice goes forth
crooked." Hab 1:4

cliffs: FTP is pretty much probably* doomed and it's a bad day for online poker whoever operates it, whoever regulates it, whoever plays it, whoever broadcasts it, whoever watches it on TV

Last edited by TafferBoy; 09-02-2011 at 05:08 PM. Reason: *Angel investor may decide that "run on bank" scenario can be weathered by new FTP.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:02 PM   #1881
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by random user View Post
It would appear that you are suggesting that a moderator here could track my ip address, find out where I live, and then because they had weapons training I should somehow not comment if I think the moderation is a bit heavy handed.

You Americans are a funny lot. This sort of attitude pretty much sums up why you are in the position you are now tbh.
Sorry buddy - I'm not American. I was playing the wag. I thought your post was rather clever and I was hoping someone would tell me to knock it off for telling you to knock it off.

Alas pearls before swine.

But hey - Sgt RK was an MP and probably has a Glock - watch out bud

Last edited by TafferBoy; 09-02-2011 at 05:11 PM. Reason: missing word (gah - the hypocrisy)
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:15 PM   #1882
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

I think you should all be reassured by the knowledge that I was asked to surrender my firearms before they would mod me. So you have nothing to worry about.





Spoiler:


/derail
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:22 PM   #1883
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

I doubt your hand weighs that much anyway SGT RJ
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #1884
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Full Tilt news has been on the decline every day. They can't open because they don't have enough liquid cash to disperse out from the run on the amount of cashouts that will happen. Also they can't wait that much longer because of oeprating costs. They are just burning money. If the statistics are correct and Full Tilt only pulls in 12million a year in euro profit.... consider everyone's money gone. It is not looking good overall. Sorry to not be an optimist but I am being realistic. I have a couple of grand tied up in FT as well.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:32 PM   #1885
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

As a sidenote, profits are NOT all that matters to an investor.

Say a company is making 10 billion a year in revenues for the last three years but is focused on becoming the biggest company in the world and so it reinvests all it's profits in the form of advertising and expansion. That company could have 0 profits, or hell, it could even take loans and lose money each of those three years and still be worth an enormous amount of money. Yes this is the extreme scenario, but just illustrating a point.

If an investor sees FTP has huge revenues and believes it could run the company more efficiently, than they can be on themselves to earn a higher profit margin. If FTP did have net revenue of 350mil+ a year, that is a significant figure.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:47 PM   #1886
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by insidemanpoker View Post
As a sidenote, profits are NOT all that matters to an investor.

Say a company is making 10 billion a year in revenues for the last three years but is focused on becoming the biggest company in the world and so it reinvests all it's profits in the form of advertising and expansion. That company could have 0 profits, or hell, it could even take loans and lose money each of those three years and still be worth an enormous amount of money. Yes this is the extreme scenario, but just illustrating a point.

If an investor sees FTP has huge revenues and believes it could run the company more efficiently, than they can be on themselves to earn a higher profit margin. If FTP did have net revenue of 350mil+ a year, that is a significant figure.
Yes I wont withdraw anything and will tell Howie not to sell this wonderfull company too cheaply. It is at least worth a couple billions. Please don't give it away and regret it later when it is making big money so rather keep it burried then see some stupid European investor making a few bucks because we dont want that to happen.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:53 PM   #1887
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I haven't owned a personal weapon since 2000.
You're destroying all my preconceptions about Americans.

Or are you just saying that you find using impersonal weapons easier on the conscience?
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:03 PM   #1888
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveh07 View Post
Full Tilt news has been on the decline every day. They can't open because they don't have enough liquid cash to disperse out from the run on the amount of cashouts that will happen. Also they can't wait that much longer because of oeprating costs. They are just burning money. If the statistics are correct and Full Tilt only pulls in 12million a year in euro profit.... consider everyone's money gone. It is not looking good overall. Sorry to not be an optimist but I am being realistic. I have a couple of grand tied up in FT as well.
the "profit" is only $12mm because millions were siphoned off to the shareholders via payments to Tiltware, Pocket Kings, etc.
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:18 PM   #1889
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
You're destroying all my preconceptions about Americans.

Or are you just saying that you find using impersonal weapons easier on the conscience?
Most personal weapons are fairly impersonal if used properly.

I haven't owned a firearm since 2000, when I sold my Glock 40 cal (that was my on duty weapon for the sheriff's department) before I entered the military. I haven't owned a gun since (I have fired other's guns, though).

The only thing I have that could possibly be considered a weapon (other than standard knifes in the kitchen) is my retractable metal baton (an ASP), which I keep in my car. I bought it (again, for job as a sheriff), so I kept it, along with the handcuffs and my sheriff's badge. Everything else (belt and gear) I eventually sold.

On topic, does anyone know when we'll find out for sure that the meeting on the 15th will happen? Didn't they provide notification about two weeks in advance last time?

A short postponement if they are on the brink of a deal would be fine, IMO, but another 8 weeks or so, and I don't see how FTP would survive. How are they even paying their employees at this point?
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:30 PM   #1890
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

I dont think we can be sure of the meeting happening on the 15th until it actually is happening, and even then they might spend the last of the player money ensuring its private via their lawyers. They could just turn up and get it held off till a later date like last time, even if the AGC claims its set in stone as a date.

Personally I think FTP will plan to bankrupt before a public hearing about their affairs happens, they just do not want their dirty laundry aired publicy imo.
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:49 PM   #1891
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Dont know where this $12million profit for Full Tilt comes from that I see mentioned earlier in this thread? Although $12 M was the Pocket Kings profit for the year ended 30 April 2010 that was after taxes and admin fees.

I thought I showed they had $110m in admin fees for Pocket Kings to the year ended April 2010.

Trouble is I assume most of thie $110 million has risen in the following 12 months to 30 April 2011 to around $150 Million and that this most likely was mostly if not all paid to Tiltware LLC which is the software company where most of Poket Kings profits go (I presume) as after all Titlware I think owns Pocket Kings. A

nyway none of this matters because overall the amounts paid to owners was around $500 million in total and thats the figure that really matters because the dividend payments do not appear to have suffered but as we all know the player funds and deposits have.

What I need is Tiltware's accounts for the last couple of years.

Someone told me that in The USA these are not made public for LLC's.

Can anyone tell me if thats true or whether there's any way I canaget hold of a copy of their financial returns?

Getting Titlware financial statements will make it a lot easier to see who pai what to whom and then it will be easier to track down where all the money has actually gone
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:54 PM   #1892
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

what we can do;(( cry and cry .. i got my big roll at FTP too... we can pray,hope and wait :/ and go back to tables at stars ...
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:57 PM   #1893
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn_lundgren View Post
The whole situation with Jeff Ifrah is a joke.
. . .
Then, he suddenly resigns as FT's lawyer, stops posting or answering any question. His e-mail is now permanently unavailable ???
I haven't kept up to date with reading every single post. Source/link to Ifrah's resignation, if you would?
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:03 PM   #1894
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

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Originally Posted by darlingm View Post
I haven't kept up to date with reading every single post. Source/link to Ifrah's resignation, if you would?
He hasn't resigned, he asked permission to step down from the class action lawsuit.

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/09/ftp-pro-se/

As far as I am aware his withdrawal hasn't been approved by the court yet.

Last edited by Hash1982; 09-02-2011 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Linkage
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:05 PM   #1895
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hdemet View Post
Dont know where this $12million profit for Full Tilt comes from that I see mentioned earlier in this thread? Although $12 M was the Pocket Kings profit for the year ended 30 April 2010 that was after taxes and admin fees.

I thought I showed they had $110m in admin fees for Pocket Kings to the year ended April 2010.

Trouble is I assume most of thie $110 million has risen in the following 12 months to 30 April 2011 to around $150 Million and that this most likely was mostly if not all paid to Tiltware LLC which is the software company where most of Poket Kings profits go (I presume) as after all Titlware I think owns Pocket Kings. A

nyway none of this matters because overall the amounts paid to owners was around $500 million in total and thats the figure that really matters because the dividend payments do not appear to have suffered but as we all know the player funds and deposits have.

What I need is Tiltware's accounts for the last couple of years.

Someone told me that in The USA these are not made public for LLC's.

Can anyone tell me if thats true or whether there's any way I canaget hold of a copy of their financial returns?

Getting Titlware financial statements will make it a lot easier to see who pai what to whom and then it will be easier to track down where all the money has actually gone
http://www.filedropper.com/55493354

Here's the pdf file for the Pocket Kings Accounts to 30 April 2010
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:05 PM   #1896
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TafferBoy View Post
Magnanimous - I thank you.

"Therefore law grows numb, and
justice never goes forth. Because the
wicked one is surrounding the righteous
one, for that reason justice goes forth
crooked." Hab 1:4

cliffs: FTP is pretty much probably* doomed and it's a bad day for online poker whoever operates it, whoever regulates it, whoever plays it, whoever broadcasts it, whoever watches it on TV
Nice Quote Mate:

Here is are a couple more contemporary ones that seem appropriate to different people, from my favorite movie - Wall Street:

To: RB, CL, HL, et al....

First,

Lou Mannheim (Hal Holbrook): "The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do."

Then,

Lou Mannheim (As Bud is being Arrested): "Bud... Bud I like you. Just remember something. Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss.
Bud Fox: I think I understand."
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:06 PM   #1897
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Pretty sure AGCC said "no later than" 15/9. So nothing scheduled till its scheduled.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:07 PM   #1898
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darlingm View Post
I haven't kept up to date with reading every single post. Source/link to Ifrah's resignation, if you would?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hash1982 View Post
He hasn't resigned, he asked permission to step down from the class action lawsuit.

As far as I am aware his withdrawal hasn't been approved by the court yet.
http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/09/ftp-pro-se/

Quote.....

(Bernie Ecclestone, estimated fortune $4.2 billion) "If it flies, floats or f**s, rent it"

Last edited by vamooose; 09-02-2011 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:08 PM   #1899
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Re: FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darlingm View Post
I haven't kept up to date with reading every single post. Source/link to Ifrah's resignation, if you would?
http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/09/ftp-pro-se/

Not sure you would call it a resignation but

Edit: got beat to the punch yet again
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:12 PM   #1900
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On my phone so can't grab the link so easily, but iirc, they released a statement that made it pretty damn clear that the hearing would not be postponed. Obviously, there's no guarantee that they stick to that.
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