Worth the read so far.

John Wesley Hardin was a South Texas gambler, gun man, murderer, and long-term fugitive, prisoner. He started killing and running from the law as a teenager. He was more sociopathic than Doc Holliday and that is going some. He killed 27 people, and maybe more. They were often senseless killings, several over card games, poker, three-card monte. When he went to Abilene, Kansas, Wild Bill Hickok was the lawmen, and both were already known for gunfights. Wild Bill allowed Hardin to keep his guns, the only man he allowed to do so. Hardin killed a man in the hotel for snoring and ran for Texas. He killed several lawmen trying to arrest him. Finally he was convicted of several murders and did 17 years in the Texas prison at Huntsville. After that he received a full pardon from the Governor and became a lawyer. The man who finally shot him in the head never went to trail. He was killed in an El Paso, Texas poker game first.

Hardin was portrayed in several movies and Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan wrote songs about him. Bob Johnston, who produced seven Dylan albums, and produced the Cash/Dylan sessions was our producer for Joe Ely's third album when I was the manager. Been to his pad. Lots of gold and platinum albums on the walls. I'm going to look for them on YouTube. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks, Omapa. That link on the O.K. was really o.k. Everybody involved just about died young except Wyatt and his bride. Back then, if you were wanted for murder in one state, you just boogied on to another state, often Texas. Wyatt lost a brother to gunfire and one crippled up, and so did Bat Masterson, lose a brother. I kind of wonder if Bat being out of town for a long time while this was all brewing was just being smart. He went to Cheyenne and went on a big five-week winning streak. I guess poker and faro. Poker was the most popular game, but faro was everywhere. I am really wondering if it was always crooked. Bat was arrested in New York for a crooked gambling device, and I'd guess it was a faro dealing box. These were widely available, probably mail order. These pros moved all around the country. The buffalo hunters, cowboys, miners, and soldiers were probably easy to cheat in a new, fast-growing boom town. One thing I read said nearly all the faro was crooked.

Some of the action was very high. I think it was Bat that was staked $9000 to sit in one poker game. It took a big bankroll to fade the faro, and there were often partners. I doubt that Wyatt, Bat, or Wild Bill Hickok ever served as lawmen when they did not own a piece of a saloon, whore house, gambling joint. John Wesley Hardin and Doc Holliday were just too crazy and temper prone to do anything but stay in a town until they needlessly killed someone and then moved on. Doc just loved 'ol Wyatt because nobody else would have much to do with him. In a boom town, gambling was King. I'd guess that being lawmen was secondary to being gambling house owners, and they were lawmen to gain control of gambling. Whoever was Sheriff or Marshall had the fanciest joint with the highest action. The one gambler who did the best was Luke Short, a Texan. He gambled around and owned big gambling joints, made possible by his friendship with Bat, Wyatt, and Doc. When the Tombstone, Dodge City booms played out, he opened a big, fancy joint in Ft. Worth. He had killed 14 men, starting at age 8. Several were Indians. Short was short and had a Napolean complex. Bullies got shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAj2ZHxe1o

Steve Earle sings Johnny Cash's song Hardin Won't Run about John Wesley Hardin. It starts with a little gambling story.

The link Omapa posted about the O.K. Corral is the best, most accurate sounding thing I have seen about it. Too bad just one movie didn't get it right, out of 55 movies.

Hey Johnny, Can you provide links to where this info comes from?

After He finished Dentist school in Philadelphia. He moved to Atlanta to start a Dentist practice. In 1873, he moved to Dallas with fellow Dentist John A. Seegar to start another dentist office. I have never heard of this story of him killing anyone in GA.

There is a biography, a book, that I read some of at Barnes and Noble. I will read more. It appeared to be very well researched. He opened dental offices several times but always went back to gambling. He and Big Nose Kate were going to settle down, but she wanted to go back to being a whore so he gave up another dental practice. Doc left Georgia for Dallas after shooting the black swimmers and because of it.

A great story I read was that he removed the wrong tooth of a bad outlaw. The guy made him get in the chair and he removed one of Doc's teeth. There was a tough poker player here that removed an enemy's teeth with pliars. I was afraid of him.

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I read the same thing years ago, can't remember where. I've been an old west history nut for 40+ years. Johnny's descriptions of Luke Short and Bat Masterson are exactly as I have researched and read over the years. One of the best old west history sites I have ever had the pleasure to encounter here on the net is this one.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/oldwest.html

So many stories on there, and most seem historically accurate. A lot of Bat Masterson's writings too. A really interesting place (and event) to read about is The Battle Of Adobe Walls. It's an old buffalo hunter trading camp north of where Johnny lives now in the Texas panhandle. The "shot of the century" was fired at this location at the end of the battle. A buffalo hunter named Billy Dixon shot one of chief Quanah Parker's Comanche warriors off a horse at a distance of 1500 yds with a Sharps rifle. Buffalo hunters gathered by the dozens at the trading post. There must have been a lot of cards and other gaming played there. Oh, and a young Bat Masterson was there at the battle. He was a buffalo hunter in his younger days before he became a lawman/gambler and later a sports writer.

Thanks Omapa, this looks very informative and interesting.

Cheers,

Saklad

One thing in particular I have tried to research over the years and have yet to reach a sound conclusion, is the mystery shiny revolver that several people seen at the gunfight at O.K. corral and who was carrying it. Was it the revolver that Wyatt had in his coat pocket? Sheriff Behan seen it and described it in his testimony at the inquest. He stated that it was the first drawn and first fired. What got me fascinated with this revolver is that there was a Merwin Hulbert nickel plated revolver that was sold at auction a few years ago that was owned by a family in Tombstone that had documentation back to Wyatt Earp.

You can see the Merwin Hulbert revolver and read a bit about it here. (it's the one over the black and white pics and old letters)
http://www.worldcollectorsnet.com/ne...nd-kit-carson/
Could this be the infamous revolver described in the inquest testimonies?

Wyatt, as many in the southwest at the time, preferred the Merwin Hulbert's over the single action Colt's. The Colt's were the army type then and were chambered in .45 colt. The Merwin Hulbert's were chambered mostly in .44-40 as most of the 73 Winchester rifles were. Which meant the same ammo for your revolver also could be used in your rifle. This is why Billy the Kid carried a Merwin Hulbert along with his 73 Winchester. Even Pancho Villa carried a Merwin Hulbert.

Wyatt presented actor Tom Mix with a Merwin Hulbert that was chambered in .44-40. Mix was a big fan of Wyatt's and spent a lot of time with him on movie sets in the early 1900s in L.A. I've often wondered if Wyatt related to Mix that this was the type he used at the famous gunfight. Wyatt later switched to carrying double action Smith & Wesson's when Merwin Hulbert's were no longer available. How's that for "barking iron"?

Thanks, Omapa. Ted Buntline, the writer, supposedly gave some gunfighters a Navy pistol, however, he may have been lying. Bat Masterson would buy old pistols, carve notches on them, and say they were used in gunfights. He'd sell them to suckers. I kind of wonder about the true history of any of the guns. The Sheriff may and probably was lying in Wyatt's trial. There may or may not have been a shiny pistol seen. I think Doc had a shotgun which would mean he did not have a pistol in his hands, but maybe in his pocket. I think Wyatt and Doc fired the first shots. Everybody on Wyatt's side got shot but him. I'm guessing but rather sure that Doc had a pistol and a shotgun. If you fired the shotgun, killing the first guy, he may have then gone for the pistol, but the whole thing was over in thirty seconds. Three dead on the Clanton side, three shot on Wyatt's side. Wyatt saw his brothers and Doc dead and lived on and on.

We joke here in Lubbock that Maria Elena Holly, Buddy's widow, goes down to Avenue H and buys old clothes to say are Buddy's and sells at auction for big bucks. I sure imagine that happens to Old West artifacts.

I think it is best to carry black guns that don't show up as much. I wear black, pleated slacks with deep pockets, and carry a five-shot, light-weight, snub-nosed, hammerless .38 revolver in my pocket sometimes and my car often. The key part is hammerless. It does not stick on your pocket coming out. It does not make a warning, cocking noise. If you **** a pistol, a crazy man may charge thinking you are about to shoot. A revolver will never jam. It is safer. You can lock it. You can have two, one locked. Those are available with a laser light that is built in, and works when you squeeze the grip, handle. I don't have one of those, yet. A cocking noise escalates the situation. I have a nine-shot .22 Luger semi-auto with an extra clip, 18 shots, long barrel for backup and shooting folks at a distance, which I cannot see ever doing. We have had three poker game robberies here, fairly recently. Everybody is packing and some have guns inside the joints. I leave security up to the house man. You do not carry a gun because of other poker players. You carry a gun because of the robbers and the fools who think they are tough. When I was young I carried those cheap-ass pawn shop .25 semi-autos, sure to jam if you fire fast. My hammerless is the best pocket pistol I've ever carried. Benny Binion, Johnny Moss, and Curly Cavitt carried hammerless, the only way to go.

I was playing at the Shop one time, sitting next to Crazy Pinkie, when I saw a silver pistol in his sports jacket pocket. It had no flap. I was going to go out front and tell Gene, the lookout/houseman, but I didn't. I caught AK, then top pair, and busted Crazy Pinkie. He reached for the gun and I jumped up and moved away a few feet. No one else moved at all or seemed to care. Pinkie asked the toughtest guy to buy the gun or loan something on it. He replied, "You will have to kill me." Pinkie left. I get a lot of ribbing for being cheap and loving money. They often mentioned busting Pinkie for under $100 even though I'd seen the gun.

Sounds like u didnt have to do alot to get killed in those days, u just had to get into an argument with some of these guys, and you were dead.

Johnny's post in which a word is obscured demonstrates the absurdity and limitations of the software this site uses. Johnny was not using a slang term of the male anatomy. He was talking about the act of pulling back the hammer on a gun.

There's a fictionalized movie about the relationship between Tom Mix and Wyatt Earp by the name of Sunset and stars Bruce Willis as Mix and James Garner as Earp.

That is exactly what I was thinking as I read more and more of it. These main gamblers knew a lot of people that were killed, and killed quite a few between them. I "think" dealing from memory that I read someplace that in Mobeetie, Texas, population 300, 30 were killed by gunfire. Temple Houston killed two for cheating at poker Over poker, Bat killed one. At the first ranch in the panhandle after the Comanches were defeated, the Springer Ranch, Springer had a big poker game.Trail drives came by, and you could bet cows. He got up a herd of 12,000 cows. He was right outside the big gambling town, Mobeetie. The black soldiers, called buffalo soldiers by the Indians because of their hair, were welcome at Springer's bar and poker game. Two of them killed Springer and his hired hand who they said were cheating. The Army did a little investigation and cleared them.

OMAPA...QUESTIONs... Did Doc Holliday kill a man in Mobeetie or near Ft. Griffin, over Abliene?? At Adobe Walls, I have read that Billy the Kid, and Bat Mastersaon were there. Is that right? I do know that Quanah Parker, Comanche Chief and my favorite Indian led the charge. My favorite book on Indians is S.C. Gwynne's Empire of the Summer Moon, the most accurate book and a huge best seller, soon to be a movie. Were Bat and Billy there? I know Doc played poker with Billy and the man who killed him, Pat Garrett, and both were in Mobeetie.

He did kill a man at Ft. Griffin with a knife during a card game, then hastily took off to Kansas. Wyatt Earp met Doc for the first time at Ft. Griffin. Earp was trailing an outlaw out of Kansas, arrived at Ft. Griffin a few days after the guy had doble back to Kansas. Doc informed Wyatt of this, and he returned to Kansas. Doc followed him up there after the knife killing.

Billy the Kid wasn't at Adobe Walls battle that I am aware of. He would have only been about 13 at the time. Bat Masterson was.

I think and need to check that it was after the knife killing in Ft. Griffin, that Doc was jailed. Kate set the jail on fire, and held the lawmen at bay with guns in both hands. Doc had fled to Texas and from Texas.

I really hit some interesting stuff after ChaosReins turned me on to the Wyatt/Tom Mix connection which was huge, and amazingly huge for movie history! They were close friends. They played in a poker game had had more influence than one can imagine on movie history. Two of the other poker players were famed film director John Ford, and a young football player, movie extra named John Wayne. Mix was a huge star of 335 movies, a close friend of Wyatt's, and a pall bearer at Wyatt's funeral. As ChaosReins pointed out, a film was made about Wyatt and Tom Mix.

Now get this as a biggie for me! John Wayne said he patterened that character you see, "The Duke" after Wyatt Earp, not Mix of the other actors. And look on that little poker game's influence on film. John Ford made Mr Darling Clementine with Henry Fonda to tell Wyatt's story the way he told it. That set off 55 movies about the O.K. Corral. John Ford made Stagecoach, using that young prop boy, extra, John Wayne who talked and walked like Wyatt Earp. I also read that Wyatt felt betrayed by the writings of Bat Masterson in New York. One account referred to a Buntline Special as the pistol Wyatt had at the O.K. Corral. However, Omapa might tell us that was not true as others have doubted Ned Buntline's story of giving Navy pistols, inscribed and fancy to gunfighters. Wyatt Earp and John Wayne! Wow.

Interesting Stuff. You made me watch Tombstone (with V.Kilmer) the other day. Some other recommendations regarding movies or books about the western gamblers?

I wasnt making fun of u. I was just curious how old u actually were because ppl tend to bring it up everytime i read one of your threads.

The guy that Holliday stabbed and killed in Ft. Griffin was named Ed Bailey. Doc was placed under house arrest by a marshall and confined to his hotel room, as there was no jail in Ft. Griffin at the time (1877). Kate set fire to either the back of the hotel or a nearby shed allowing Doc to escape during the distraction. This can be read about in several sources including the John Myers' book "Doc Holliday". Wyatt Earp also told a similar account in his writings. Holliday was highly proficient with a blade, and cut or stabbed several people during his gambling days.

Thanks, Omapa. One thing that might have impacted the trial testimony when Wyatt was on trial for the O.K. Corral killings. The Sheriff that testified against him had lived with the woman that Wyatt won, wed, and stayed with 50 years. At one time, the Sheriff was dealing faro at the Oriental, where Wyatt, Luke, and Bat had all dealt faro. Wyatt went up against the house, "bucking the tiger" and had his whole bankroll up. He busted the Sheriff, which "might" have been for $6000. I'm "guessing" they played no-limit faro sometimes, but the house went bust several times. Poker Alice busted a faro bank in Silver City and won $6000 or $8000, accounts vary.

A favorite Wyatt Earp story. When Wyatt was really old and living near L.A., a man robbed a bank and hopped a train headed Wyatt's way. The laws called Wyatt who stuck a pistol in his pocket and went looking for the guy. The robber was in a store with the store owner and patrons held at gunpoint. Wyatt walked in with his hand on the pistol in his pocket, and told the guy he better give up. He asked why he should give up to some old man? Wyatt said simply, "I'm Wyatt Earp." The guy gave up and said he was honored to be arrested by Wyatt.

Movies have been made about the lives of many nationally-famous people who once lived in our beloved, gorgeous West Texas. Wyatt Earp, Woody Guthrie, Bat Masterson, Buddy Holly, Poker Alice, Doc Holliday, Quanah Parker, Lottie Deno, and John Wesley Hardin. Lottie was the model for Miss Kitty on Gunsmoke. Elizabeth Taylor played Poker Alice. There were fifty-five movies about Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday. Woody and Buddy never killed anybody but all the gamblers did, including the women.

Buddy Holly carried a gun. It was on the plane in which he died in a crash. . If Woody Guthrie, didn't carry a gun, he was the only one on this list. . In the Old West, women gamblers always carried guns, and used them.

Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday were famous early in life. There were newspapers for and against them in Tombstone, and newspapers coast to coast covered the gunfight and vengeance ride afterward. Wyatt Earp spent far more years as a gambler and saloon keeper than he did as a lawman.

He and Sadie moved around boom towns, including to Alaska where he built a large bankroll. Wyatt was into horse racing and betting. He had referred a few bare-knucle fights, when he was selected to referee the heavy-weight championship in San Francisco in the 1920s between Sharkey and Fitzsimmons. As Wyatt entered the ring, police confiscated the pistol showing in his pocket. He paid a small fine for it later. Sharkey went down holding his testicles, and Wyatt ruled the fight for him because of one low blow by Fitzsimmons. Wyatt was already a controversial figure. Folks thought he fixed it, did the right thing, or that Sharkey fooled him.

The movies were another boom town. Jack London, the writer, whom Wyatt had met in Alaska introduced him around the movie lots: Charlie Chaplin, Tom Mix, WilliamaS. Hart, John Wayne and famed director, John Ford.

He wanted them to tell his story and they did, fifty-five movies.


Late in life, the Earp's ran low on money. Sadie, whom he was with forty-six years had a rich family that helped them. When he was winner, Wyatt would buy Sadie jewelry. She hocked it to play in backroom poker games in L.A. She was a compulsive gambler and a bad poker player. The old gambler finally went broke, because of his wife.

Great read johnny this thread certainly needs more love.