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Old 03-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #1001
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by OMGitsCheddar View Post
Non-sequitur warning.

We don't have $5 a gallon, and we never have.

We're at about $3.75 as a country right now ($3.45 where I'm at), and everyone here seems to think 1) it's a huge problem 2) it has a simple cause.

Like it is a problem for people because it's high relative to the rock bottom prices for gas we are used to paying and it's reducing purchasing power / weakening our economic recovery here.
But, if you wanna hear some of the most hyper-simplified logic ever employed, listen to our politicians talk about the price of gas.
$5 gas found here
http://www.californiagasprices.com/
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #1002
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

The real problem I've had with him is that lame-ass nickname. Who the eff came up with "E-dog" anyway? It was like he just needed one to be in the famous player clique or something...holy crap, every time I heard it on a poker vid I was then then ...

E-dog, well, that and all the lying and stuff too
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #1003
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Anyone want to offer me 20/1 that DN's 500k mystery man is Johnny Chan?
Dont think he played Bay 101? or at least he wasn't a shooting star this year
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #1004
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by Rusemandingo View Post
Are you really calling DN out for not being a giant gossip and airing every piece of dirty laundry he's heard about people in public? The vast majority of people dont want to hear this info to protect themselves, they just want juicy gossip.

Aside from that he doesnt owe it to randoms to talk **** about people he deals with on a daily basis and risk damaging that relationship.
Agreed. If anyone's really getting ready to do some major financial dealings, I can see wanting to know these types of things; however, for 95%+ of people here, tis not the case.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:35 PM   #1005
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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7/1? You are tighter than a nun, it's Johnny ****ing Chan we are talking about.
Bets off bets off
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:35 PM   #1006
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

A couple of generalizations here. I've read most of the thread, but, skipped over 5 or so of the last pages. This came to me and I wanted to say it before I forgot it.

1. Poker in the long term is like the stock market (Just about 4 years behind in this case.) It's going to have it's highs and lows, we all know where it's at right now.

2. The "old school" verses "new school" of thought in poker is almost the exact opposite of "old school" verses "new school" as far as our country's economic mentality goes. Outside of poker, it's those "Occupy" freaks (New School) that are careless with their (or more likely others') money and expect things to come to them. IE: FTP and their old school pros who took the money and spent it as carelessly as possible... They just expected the gravy train to keep on rolling in. We all know now, that this seems to be more the case with the "old school" as far as poker goes. The "New School" poker players are the one's who were actually responsible with their money, which was what our older generations did outside of poker.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:53 AM   #1007
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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If you need to know why do you need to ask Daniel? Somebody that owes Daniel 500K is somebody bigtime that in all likelihood is nowhere near your stable. And Daniel made a great point in saying he does warn people just not on the internet. Also based on at least 75% of loaning/staking deals in the poker world going bad; if I were you I would prepare myself for the worst whether Daniel warns you or not.
Fair points all around. I guess I was asking Daniel specifically as he is perhaps the only widely recognizable player who is regarded as an upstanding person and out for the betterment of the game, and thus I was curious why he would feel conflicted at all about outing known scumbags.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:59 AM   #1008
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu View Post
Can't remember who said it, but I liked it. Essentially, before gambling with someone "ask around" and you'll get answers very quickly as to whether or not they are trustworthy. I'm always willing to give opinions on people, and even if I just see a younger guy hanging out with a guy I know to be financial trouble, I'd seek him out and let him know.
Many of us may question your thought processes occasionally Mr. Negreanu, but I can't say how much I appreciate your time on here. The sponsorships that you receive are based on your greater public persona and charisma, and you certainly don't gain anything by answering questions from anonymous folks like us. The fact that you have given your time to let us get a greater glimpse into how a person of your stature thinks based upon your experiences speaks even greater volumes about you. Cheers!
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:05 AM   #1009
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by 12.01 View Post
i'm not referring to either of the groups you mentioned in particular,just poker players in a global sense,the game is infested with cheats/colluders/spongers/liars who have zero regard for fellow players.
So is the rest of the world, just replace fellow players with fellow people. Lots of people are greedy and selfish when money is involved, and they will lie, cheat, and steal to get more of it.

You notice it more in poker because of the nature of the game and because you're more involved with the poker world, but it happens plenty with other groups of people, and it always will.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:10 AM   #1010
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Dont think he played Bay 101? or at least he wasn't a shooting star this year
he was late. he was a shooting star and he busted
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:14 AM   #1011
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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At first, the poker community was devastated by being scammed out of some of their pocket money by FTP.

Following this thread, it would seem that poker players are slowly coming to terms with the fact that they were suckered into swallowing, hook line and sinker, the American boob-tube promotion that professional players were admirable individuals with special talents rather than some of the dregs of humanity.

All of us like to think that we have unique insights. It isn't easy admitting that you are a marketing exec's fool and have been suckered by people smarter and more devious than you are.
my fiance keeps telling me it's a scam
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:32 AM   #1012
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by Scrappydog View Post
I am glad that haralabos and brandon posted as well. BUT it needs to be mentioned that Haralabos is telling us that Rafe Furst has done nothing wrong, yet calling out the shareholders for being to busylaundering money and buying banks to mask their financial transactions. Rafe was on the board of Directors, not JUST a shareholder. How can Rafe POSSIBLY be innocent when even HV admits that the shareholders were robbing us? As for Brandon Adams, he also stuck up for FTP. None of these scumbags from before poker exploded deserve any respect OR trust from us. If the $2800 guy had never posted this, would HV or DN have ever said a bad word re: EL? No way...
Lurked the first 35 pages and THIS!! ^

Also, many of the comments itt show me that probably 15% of the posters itt actually play poker outside of of thier mother's basement.

Addiction happens. You get on a roll and you keep rollin all the way to your own funeral. My whole family consist of busto degens. As a poker player I fight it daily. Some of you are so condemming that it's obvious that you have never played higher than NL 50.

Yes, it appears that EL blew it big time. It's unfortunate. It happens to many. EL is the true definition of "Fish on a heater". I doubt anything he did was intentional. As a true degen you always believe that things will work out. You roll the dice and hope for the best.

Just because it was likely unintentional doesn't mean EL should not be held accountable.

It's funny, dozens of you itt idolized team FTP for years. Were you that naive to think that this was just some elite group with god like gambling skills?

Also, it's funny how when EL was rollin' nobody was saying **** except "sick life" and "balla". Now that he is left for dead it's "degen" and "scumbag".

I love NVG. Cool story.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:42 AM   #1013
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by JohnnyIllini View Post
Many of us may question your thought processes occasionally Mr. Negreanu, but I can't say how much I appreciate your time on here. The sponsorships that you receive are based on your greater public persona and charisma, and you certainly don't gain anything by answering questions from anonymous folks like us. The fact that you have given your time to let us get a greater glimpse into how a person of your stature thinks based upon your experiences speaks even greater volumes about you. Cheers!
DN is like that guy in high school that hung out with the cool kids and the nerds.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:05 AM   #1014
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

Wondering why Daniel didn't address this situation whatsoever in his weekly video blog?
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:17 AM   #1015
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

Because he said a dozen times he would next week.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:18 AM   #1016
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by jbellfeins View Post
Wondering why Daniel didn't address this situation whatsoever in his weekly video blog?
He said in this thread that he's already gotten material, which was Epic Poker League's bankruptcy, in this week's vlog and that he shall address the situation on EL in next week's vlog.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:24 AM   #1017
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by checkorbet50 View Post
DN is like that guy in high school that hung out with the cool kids and the nerds.
Nice. I remember him saying (HSP, maybe?) that he considers himself a link between the old school and the new school. Makes sense, especially given his tone in this thread.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:48 AM   #1018
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

I spoke to Daniel about all this at Bay 101 the other night and find him to be a pretty reasonable and open minded dude. I sympathize that it's super ****ing hard to be stone cold objective when people you're tight with do scummy things. If you've been in this industry even a little while, then you know how that is.

I told him I thought people who demonstrate this kind of behavior over time should be routinely outed for it because these types of people attempt to gamble/scam their way out of financial situations and often, either their money stream gets cut off or they get in too deep from betting money they don't have and reach a sum of debt that cannot be repaid without some form of miracle. And anyone who bet with this guy--be they a in the know card/sports sharp aware of previous payment issues or just someone who placed a bet thinking the guy they saw on TV could surely pay--is left holding the bag, a near certainty to be ****ed over the long run if said miracle does not come through. And miracles were outlawed as of Black Friday.

I like to think I'm a pretty well-informed guy in the industry. I ask a lot of questions to a lot of people, and make a point of knowing who's shady about things, but in some of the cases coming out lately about how shady well-known players were about their debt I was clueless. In all my brief interactions with Erick he "seemed like a good guy". He clearly handles himself well at the table. But he and guys like him have happily free-rolled people in bets they have no realistic chance of paying up on, and likely would have continued doing so if someone didn't reach the point of being so furious with the bull**** that they made a 2+2 post. I find it absolutely brilliant that a $2,800 debt caused this.

I told Daniel that I understand where he's coming from about the old school/new school. We agreed he more-so meant that there is a difference in mentality as a result of growing up in different conditions; older generation live pros find the notion of outing someone online impersonal and offensive, but the younger generation grew up with the internet and has acclimated to finding out everything about everyone online. Those of the previous generation make a point of informing people around them that have dealings with known degenerates that they are not reliable about money, but don't feel a need to out someone on a large scale. That said, I am still very much of my generation, and think that these things becoming known helps cleanse the industry of people who behave like scumbags when it comes to money.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:52 AM   #1019
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

OK, so who are you outting?
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:12 AM   #1020
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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I spoke to Daniel about all this at Bay 101 the other night and find him to be a pretty reasonable and open minded dude. I sympathize that it's super ****ing hard to be stone cold objective when people you're tight with do scummy things. If you've been in this industry even a little while, then you know how that is.

I told him I thought people who demonstrate this kind of behavior over time should be routinely outed for it because these types of people attempt to gamble/scam their way out of financial situations and often, either their money stream gets cut off or they get in too deep from betting money they don't have and reach a sum of debt that cannot be repaid without some form of miracle. And anyone who bet with this guy--be they a in the know card/sports sharp aware of previous payment issues or just someone who placed a bet thinking the guy they saw on TV could surely pay--is left holding the bag, a near certainty to be ****ed over the long run if said miracle does not come through. And miracles were outlawed as of Black Friday.

I like to think I'm a pretty well-informed guy in the industry. I ask a lot of questions to a lot of people, and make a point of knowing who's shady about things, but in some of the cases coming out lately about how shady well-known players were about their debt I was clueless. In all my brief interactions with Erick he "seemed like a good guy". He clearly handles himself well at the table. But he and guys like him have happily free-rolled people in bets they have no realistic chance of paying up on, and likely would have continued doing so if someone didn't reach the point of being so furious with the bull**** that they made a 2+2 post. I find it absolutely brilliant that a $2,800 debt caused this.

I told Daniel that I understand where he's coming from about the old school/new school. We agreed he more-so meant that there is a difference in mentality as a result of growing up in different conditions; older generation live pros find the notion of outing someone online impersonal and offensive, but the younger generation grew up with the internet and has acclimated to finding out everything about everyone online. Those of the previous generation make a point of informing people around them that have dealings with known degenerates that they are not reliable about money, but don't feel a need to out someone on a large scale. That said, I am still very much of my generation, and think that these things becoming known helps cleanse the industry of people who behave like scumbags when it comes to money.
Oh, so you're the guy who owes DN $500,000???

Just kidding - seriously though, very sad a guy who was bringing in $250,000 a month for years has ended up like this. And in my opinion, he shouldn't have even been playing at Bay 101 - I would be scared to death to stake him with all the people he owes. Now all he's doing is adding to his debt. I know all he knows is poker but it could take years to hit a big tournament, especially with the fields getting tougher and tougher.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:32 AM   #1021
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

it doesnt matter what pro comments. where is edog he can have phil ivey stick up for him or doyle brunson. the guy still owes 500k to somebody, ya digg?
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:43 AM   #1022
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

The old school new school argument is very relevant and while it doesn't excuse EL, it does validly place blame on those who chose to do business with EL. But its not quite the same old school/new school argument DN was making.

Read the next few sentences carefully. ERICK LINDGREN WAS PLAYING POKER BEFORE IT WAS SANITIZED FOR MASS CONSUMPTION. HE WAS PLAYING POKER WHEN GAMBLING WAS A MUCH WORSE WORD THAN IT IS NOW.

What types of people do you think played poker before the boom? What type of people do you think were heavily into gambling before the boom? I'll give you a clue- not nerds like you. Not straight laced college grads. Daniel Negreanu (if I remember from ESPN) was trying to be a POOL HUSTLER before he got into poker. Phil Ivey slept under bridges because he gambled his bus money. Howard Lederer slept on park benches obsessing over chess. Does this sound anything remotely close to ANYTHING you have even thought about doing? I bet it doesn't. It used to be, and I know this from first hand experience, that you had to be rebellious, weird, or somehow afflicted with gambling addiction to even be into gambling.

So ESPN shows the world series of poker with hole cams and the movie rounders comes out. Now everyone is watching poker and these guys who were into poker/gambling before the boom are made into stars by the editors at ESPN. BUT THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOU. Many of them are addicted to gambling. Phil Ivey has a sickness. Eric Lindgren clearly has a sickness. Some people who have a sickness are also very skilled at poker, luckily for them. But that does not cancel out the fact that they have a sickness.

Many people are coming out with judgmental BS when they have no clue of how to put gambling ethics into the context of how the game of poker has evolved from a societal standpoint. The fundamental irony is that these guys were into poker/gambling pre boom and hence made rich and famous for being what they still are, only now they are cursed for those very same traits.

So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:49 AM   #1023
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

updated cliffs in OP please.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:49 AM   #1024
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken View Post
The old school new school argument is very relevant and while it doesn't excuse EL, it does validly place blame on those who chose to do business with EL. But its not quite the same old school/new school argument DN was making.

Read the next few sentences carefully. ERICK LINDGREN WAS PLAYING POKER BEFORE IT WAS SANITIZED FOR MASS CONSUMPTION. HE WAS PLAYING POKER WHEN GAMBLING WAS A MUCH WORSE WORD THAN IT IS NOW.

What types of people do you think played poker before the boom? What type of people do you think were heavily into gambling before the boom? I'll give you a clue- not nerds like you. Not straight laced college grads. Daniel Negreanu (if I remember from ESPN) was trying to be a POOL HUSTLER before he got into poker. Phil Ivey slept under bridges because he gambled his bus money. Howard Lederer slept on park benches obsessing over chess. Does this sound anything remotely close to ANYTHING you have even thought about doing? I bet it doesn't. It used to be, and I know this from first hand experience, that you had to be rebellious, weird, or somehow afflicted with gambling addiction to even be into gambling.

So ESPN shows the world series of poker with hole cams and the movie rounders comes out. Now everyone is watching poker and these guys who were into poker/gambling before the boom are made into stars by the editors at ESPN. BUT THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOU. Many of them are addicted to gambling. Phil Ivey has a sickness. Eric Lindgren clearly has a sickness. Some people who have a sickness are also very skilled at poker, luckily for them. But that does not cancel out the fact that they have a sickness.

Many people are coming out with judgmental BS when they have no clue of how to put gambling ethics into the context of how the game of poker has evolved from a societal standpoint. The fundamental irony is that these guys were into poker/gambling pre boom and hence made rich and famous for being what they still are, only now they are cursed for those very same traits.

So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO.
hard to disagree with this and I think it's true that you gotta remember how the game used to work...I mean Lederer was playing in underground games in NYC, Doyle was like a gunslinger in the wild west...I am aware of where poker came from - the game is a lot different today and has a ton of media attention and a better image in many ways...yet the image of the game remains far from ideal for many reasons - but hey the image of politicians and journalists is far from ideal too - that's just how it is man
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:36 AM   #1025
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Anyone want to offer me 20/1 that DN's 500k mystery man is Johnny Chan?
That would be free money to who books it. However, have not seen Johnny playing big games lately. But he still has a very good income and probably isn't hurting too bad.

The person who owes Daniel 500K is some random person (not a top pro). If it was a top pro Daniel would "out" the guy for "never seeing a dime." It's probably some run down guy or Daniel won the 500K in various bets that the guy never seen 100K in his life.

I mean if someone well known owed you 500K and you know you'd never see a dime ... you'd out them. But since not... it must be an unknown.

Sick though.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:43 AM   #1026
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

Quote:

"So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO."

A couple points
Judge people? This guy owes a large sum of money to many people. He has owed some people money for half a decade. Seems like there's only one way to pass judgement on someone like that.

If you don't respect it and its ways blah blah blah? With time, everything evolves. In the 60s, people said Elvis danced too inappropriately. African Americans were looked down upon as a second class race. TV has evolved, society has evolved, and guess what...the gambling world has evolved! You can either get with the times or be left behind.

Sure, there was an "old gambler's code" of repaying debts, not shunning someone's name, etc. Information such as "Eric owes me $2800 for 4 months" was something that used to be said amongst gamblers and not outted to the entire world on an internet forum. Clearly, that time is no more. Now, the new gambling world is outing people on the world wide web. Whether or not you agree with this is irrelevant, its a fact that it happens.

Respect it or get hurt? What the gambling world used to be was, the juice runs, you don't pay up and your legs get broken. The person who gets hurt is the person with the debt, not the debt collectors. Luckily for some people, that time is passed and they can walk around without the fear or someone showing up with a baseball bat in the parking lot.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:47 AM   #1027
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

The old school vs new school thinking seems pretty retarded to me.

1. You make a bet
2. You lose the bet and have to pay
3. If you cannot pay then let the person know you cannot pay and come to some sort of agreement about a payment plan
4. Don't just ignore the person and claim you will pay when you have no intention of doing so.

That's the thing that has annoyed me the most. EL actually told the guy that the cheque was in the post when it clearly wasn't! I don't care how big the bet was, that to me is just the lowest of the low. Flat out lying.

Honesty is the best policy.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #1028
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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And miracles were outlawed as of Black Friday.
I like this line
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:15 AM   #1029
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken View Post
So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO.
So to summarize your entire post, all poker players before 2004 & rounders in 1998 were a bunch of scumbags, degenerates, & losers. Now, the new school is college educated and a very strait laced group.

If the new school doesn't like the old school group of scumbags, degenerates, & losers, they can GFTO.

If the new school happens to get hurt or scammed by the old schools scummy ways, it is not the old schoolers scamming fault, but, it is actually the fault of the new schoolers for allowing themselves to be scammed.

Cool story bro.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:47 AM   #1030
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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I mean words dont even....playing Bay 101 Shooting Star. Pic from worldpokertour.com


So Erick is even mixing with notorious Irish bare knuckle boxer traveller Paddy Doherty now?
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #1031
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Those of the previous generation make a point of informing people around them that have dealings with known degenerates that they are not reliable about money, but don't feel a need to out someone on a large scale. That said, I am still very much of my generation, and think that these things becoming known helps cleanse the industry of people who behave like scumbags when it comes to money.
Of course outing scums is the right thing to do, no matter the situation. Sadly tho, things dont work like that. I feel many people scammed would want to tell what they know but for various reasons, they cant.

Some are in the position to be close friends with the scammer. Some are aware that their only way of seeing some money back is if the scammer scams someone else, sadly. Some just dont want the heat. And finally, some have something to gain from it.

If a friend told me he heard DN for example is a scammer who did this and that, what is my moral obligation in this case? To inform the public what I HEARD or to keep it to myself? You cant just go out there throwing names based on what you hear, in my opinion. And this is the case for the most.

Im sure every HS player and not only know of some shady dealings, most of them tho are not in the position to comment unless they were directly involved.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:00 AM   #1032
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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that to me is just the lowest of the low. Flat out lying.
Lowest of the low? Yeah, rapists... murderers... liars about a $2800 debt... they're all pretty much the same.

Y'all must have led some REAL sheltered lives.

It's completely clear what Lindgren SHOULD have done. But there's no need for an extreme over-reaction to what he DID do.

As far as outing people, I have no particular problem with it either way. The creditor can do whatever he wants. But all the shocked reactions are pretty laughable. "E-dog LIED!11!1!!?!?!?!? But... he looks so ARYAN on the TV!!!"
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #1033
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

damn, over 1000 posts :O...it's only money people!
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:17 AM   #1034
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Lowest of the low? Yeah, rapists... murderers... liars about a $2800 debt... they're all pretty much the same.

Y'all must have led some REAL sheltered lives.

It's completely clear what Lindgren SHOULD have done. But there's no need for an extreme over-reaction to what he DID do.

As far as outing people, I have no particular problem with it either way. The creditor can do whatever he wants. But all the shocked reactions are pretty laughable. "E-dog LIED!11!1!!?!?!?!? But... he looks so ARYAN on the TV!!!"
lol @ thinking I was putting in the same context as those you have mentioned. If it wasn't obvious I was talking about the lowest of the low in gambling circles. You seem determined to defend EL when it is clear as day there is no defence. He owes people money and tried so lie his way out of it. Just admit to the guy you didn't have it and Im sure he would understand, in fact this thread probably wouldn't exist right now. He dug himself the hole, it's up to him to get himself out of it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #1035
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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How can anyone have such a problem with Daniel's stance? Most of you just want gossip anyways. 99.9% will never be in a position to interact and exchange money with this person anyways. And the very few that ever would are likely in a close enough circle to find out the pertinent information. Stop calling Daniel out for needing to protect you from something you don't need protection from.
Hmmm. Sure seems like a lot of people needed that information about EL and weren't in a close enough circle. You do realise that once a scammer's immediate sources are cut off then they'll spread their net wider?

I agree with everything Bond18 posted.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:51 AM   #1036
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

The reason Daniel's very brief reply is so empty is that he is basically completely denying reality in an effort not to step on toes.

There is no doubt that the VAST majority of people in Erick's situation (prior to it being made public, of course) will continue to rip off people to feed their addiction or to try to get out of the hole etc etc. These people are generally not stupid and so they will OBVIOUSLY go more and more out of the standard box when seeking new prey to rip off. When their reputation is getting lower and lower among those 'in the know' or in the gambling circle or whatever, they will seek those who aren't well connected or who may be more naively trusting and so more innocent victims of the scams will perpetrate. The fact that Daniel thinks it is okay to keep it among private company who in his community is a crook (that's what these people are) is a disservice to everyone else.

Daniel, could you ever claim that had you outed Erick for being a degenerate scammer or if you out this mystery guy who has taken you for 500k, that it would not reduce the chances of those people scamming innocent victims in the community? I am sure you would agree that if you do so, their chances of securing victims going forward would be greatly reduced, and as such you would be siding with innocent people rather than protecting the reputations of degenerate, slimy, crooks.

To whoever the poster it was that said it isn't DN's job to out everyone he has heard is a degen, of course it isn't. I don't argue. But when his supposed best friend is one, or when he is directly ripped off 500k from someone, it IS his responsibility if he cares about innocent people in the community to make that info public. Those who are the scammers deserve NOTHING and the respect DN gives them is not okay. When you have direct and certain knowledge that someone is a thief, and you have a voice that could easily prevent that thief from being able to steal from innocent people again, it is shameful not to use that voice.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:55 AM   #1037
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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The handful of people still clinging to this idea that poker is a legitimate pursuit are totally delusional.

No matter what happens with the legalization of poker in the U.S. playing poker 'for a living' is pretty much the worst way you can spend your life.

I started playing in 02 and here we are 10 years later and if I could take it all back and never play, that would be just fine with me. Before I got turned on to poker I was making close to 70K a year and doing just fine.

The people that gravitate to this so called 'sport' are the lowest pieces of garbage on the planet. I can speak from experience because I have worked and dealt with a lot of pieces of trash in my life and I assure you, poker players are right there scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It took me all this time to finally wake up and realize that. Nothing positive seems to come from poker. NOTHING.

Here we are not even a decade after the Moneymaker boom and look at the entire industry. DOJ coming down hard on Black Friday and now scam after scam after scam after scam coming to light. This is all so pathetic.

Makes me ashamed to have ever been a part of this awful subculture.

I never got into poker for this.

what a joke
O O Can i jump on the trendy "hate poker now" bandwagon


dont let the door hit you on the way out
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:13 AM   #1038
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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let me point out that this seems to be the cornerstone of your deluded justification for lack of prompt re-payment of debt

are you joking ?

ladies and gentlemen this is the reason why we have 5 dollar a gallon gas and 16 trillion dollars in debt as a nation

no surprise that our country is swimming in debt with clowns like this validating outstanding multi-trillion dollar debt

wow
yeh just ignore all the wars and blame a poker player and a 2+2 poster

its gambling, if all ye people really thought the gambling world wouldnt have this and much worse going on it then your living in a f***in shell

dont be so surprised when ya find out
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:33 AM   #1039
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

no one gives a **** that you americans need to pay 1/2 or 1/3 for gas as the rest of us and still cry about it.

Gossip about Eric Lindgren or similar degens or stfu please.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:40 AM   #1040
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Yep. He was always the biggest degen sportsbettor around. 10k bet on at least 50 games on Saturday and I know he had at least 4-5 spots he was betting. I doubt it was all for him but who knows. ANyway, I was an agent for one of the books and took him 300-400 several times but both times he lost big ( > 300k) he came up with excuse after excuse why he couldn't pay for a few weeks and dragged it out 1 time for over 2 months to where the book wanted to hurt him and I told him to just chill and he'd get it thought I really didn't know. After the way things went down between him and his holier than thou attitude I wish I would've just let the guy do what he wanted to him.
I will say this, he comes across great on Tv just like most ppl like him do.
This is a pretty incredible post if true.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:11 AM   #1041
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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So is the IRS part of the newer generation or older generation?
This is top drawer funny.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:12 AM   #1042
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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The reason Daniel's very brief reply is so empty is that he is basically completely denying reality in an effort not to step on toes.
You're misinterpreting reality. DN is the most outspoken and honest personality in the game. How much does it say about him that he reads every post in this thread and has responded multiple times? Moreover, he has not disputed any of the facts; but he has--as he admitted himself--chosen his words carefully because what the hell else is he supposed to do? He can't spout meaningless dribble.

When DN was called out multiple times for not publicly outing slow-payers, he quickly responded with a well-reasoned response that he handles such issues more privately. You can make a case, I think, that he is obligated to out people on the internet, but to claim that he is denying reality is either a poor choice of words on your part, or utter idiocy.

I think you're misunderstanding of the broad picture here is that you think that there is a one-size-fits-all scammer; that if someone doesn't pay immediately then internet justice should strike quickly. I think this is a poor perspective on the issue, especially--especially!--when it comes to DN, who's integrity and openness are of the highest-order. You might disagree with DN, but I think you owe him enough respect to believe that he is acting reasonably and good faith. To claim he is denying reality is silly and insulting.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #1043
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

I know a guy who played Backgammon for like 100$ a game against some degen. He kept winning quite a bit over months and the other guy wanted to up the stakes to get even. Somehow he is now owed a couple 100.000 or even over a million - that other guy can not realistically pay that back ever.

Last time i saw him he was thinking about whether it would be better to just cut the debt to some amount he could be able to repay, like 20k or something or if he should lose intentionally so they get back to that amount.

Don't let yourself be freerolled...
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #1044
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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You're misinterpreting reality. DN is the most outspoken and honest personality in the game. How much does it say about him that he reads every post in this thread and has responded multiple times? Moreover, he has not disputed any of the facts; but he has--as he admitted himself--chosen his words carefully because what the hell else is he supposed to do? He can't spout meaningless dribble.

When DN was called out multiple times for not publicly outing slow-payers, he quickly responded with a well-reasoned response that he handles such issues more privately. You can make a case, I think, that he is obligated to out people on the internet, but to claim that he is denying reality is either a poor choice of words on your part, or utter idiocy.

I think you're misunderstanding of the broad picture here is that you think that there is a one-size-fits-all scammer; that if someone doesn't pay immediately then internet justice should strike quickly. I think this is a poor perspective on the issue, especially--especially!--when it comes to DN, who's integrity and openness are of the highest-order. You might disagree with DN, but I think you owe him enough respect to believe that he is acting reasonably and good faith. To claim he is denying reality is silly and insulting.
Daniel explicitly said there is a guy who has scammed him for 500k. He says he will never see that money again. Anyone capable of doing that to DN is very capable of doing it to others. If DN doesn't make it public, those who aren't on the 'inside' in the gambling world are at risk of getting ripped off by this man. DN is rather selfish to keep such info private as he is putting the scammer and his own best interest ahead of the greater good and protecting future innocent victims.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #1045
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

DN doesn't live in NVG world. It's acceptable for him to bash FTP as this is probably the worst situation to ever happen in poker. (plus it's in his best interest to do so as the face of stars) But to ask/expect him to start outing every scumbag in poker is beyond ridiculous. He'd probably be ostracized from the poker community faster (again, the people he has to look in the face everyday, not NVG) quicker than the players he's outing.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #1046
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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Daniel explicitly said there is a guy who has scammed him for 500k. He says he will never see that money again. Anyone capable of doing that to DN is very capable of doing it to others. If DN doesn't make it public, those who aren't on the 'inside' in the gambling world are at risk of getting ripped off by this man. DN is rather selfish to keep such info private as he is putting the scammer and his own best interest ahead of the greater good and protecting future innocent victims.
Here is what DN said:

I'm owed personally a ton of money by a lot of people. I won't out them. In fact, I saw a guy last night in SJ, chatted with him for a while, and wont out him publicly. He owes me close to half a million and I'll probably never see a dime of it. I know Erick is also owed a boatload of money as well, whiich is somewhat ironic, but it's unlikely he'll see much of that.

For someone calling-out someone else for denying reality, your own grasp of reality is pretty damn unreliable.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #1047
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

LOL, RYO, you are a joke. Anyone with half a brain would not call it much of a leap to take DN saying explicity "I saw a guy last night in SJ, chatted with him for a while, and wont out him publicly. He owes me close to half a million and I'll probably never see a dime of it" as him saying he was scammed out of 500k. If he will never see a dime of it, he was scammed, period. If he had said "the guy is working to pay me off but i likely won't see 100% of that money ever, that would be VERY different but this guy has scammed him by deciding to not ever pay him off anything at all. Nice derail though, waste of my time and I won't be responding again.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:22 AM   #1048
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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DN doesn't live in NVG world. It's acceptable for him to bash FTP as this is probably the worst situation to ever happen in poker. (plus it's in his best interest to do so as the face of stars) But to ask/expect him to start outing every scumbag in poker is beyond ridiculous. He'd probably be ostracized from the poker community faster (again, the people he has to look in the face everyday, not NVG) quicker than the players he's outing.
I said he should out only those who he is 100% sure of and who he is directly involved with, hence, Erick as his best bud, and this mystery guy who has directly scammed him out of 500k. I don't expect DN (nor should he be obligated) to out someone just because he overheard or saw something that looked suspicious or because he was told by someone else that something shady exists. But when he is directly involved and is in a position to prevent innocent people from getting ripped off, I'd say it's fair game.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:23 AM   #1049
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

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DN doesn't live in NVG world. It's acceptable for him to bash FTP as this is probably the worst situation to ever happen in poker. (plus it's in his best interest to do so as the face of stars) But to ask/expect him to start outing every scumbag in poker is beyond ridiculous. He'd probably be ostracized from the poker community faster (again, the people he has to look in the face everyday, not NVG) quicker than the players he's outing.
This +alot.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #1050
 
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Re: Erick Lindgren Owes Over $100,000 for Fantasy League, Won't Pay

If you guys ask for his opinion and he gives it , Is that enough? Or do you break it down and scrutinize him because he was good enough to give it.

Daniel isnt these guys dad! **** man
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