So you want us to handle debts the way Wall Street does? Bundle the bad ones and sell them to squares? That way we won't have "negative connotations?" Brilliant.

If poker ever sinks to the moral level of banks or lawyers or Wall Street, I'm out.

I'm not even going to try and convince, or persuade anyone that this is "logical" or makes sense at all, but it's extremely common in the gambling world.

Here's the thing, I think there is a different etiquette with close friends / good gambling buddies than there is with people you don't know that well. Not so sure this is and old school vs. news school issue. Sounds like Edog didn't know OP well and so i don't think it's acceptable to slow pay or jerk the guy around. I totally get what you are saying with guys that you gamble with everyday and are close with but that doesn't appear to be the case here...

I also know of PLENTY of people who owe money, and I never put them on blast and I won't.

I don't feel that you need to be putting people on blast for owing money but i suspect you wouldn't hesitate if it was Annie Duke or somebody else you don't like...The fact is though that Edog is a public figure so when he participates in high stakes sports betting with people he doesn't know that well and then slow pays, lies, and jerks them around when he loses, he shouldn't be surprised when he gets called out publicly. OP tried to handle the situation privately and it's entirely Edogs fault this ended up on 2p2 IMO...

I'm only responding here because someone who was owed $2800 decided to post it on 2+2. That's not something you would have ever seen in the "old world," unless Erick had specifically said he wasn't going to pay it. What I saw was Edog being neglegent about it, claiming he sent a check and didn't, but not that he wasn't going to pay it.

Welcome to the internet age. Again Edog is a public poker figure and should know better

Much like with Chino, I don't often get involved in people's personal dealing with other players. These are "small time" issues in the poker world IMO and only effect the people who trusted someone and got screwed. I.E. If Chino borrowed money from John, and hasn't paid it back yet, that's between Chino and John.

I think it's fine for John to warn others not to loan Chino any money, but If I were to get involved in every suspect financial transaction between two people in our industry, I wouldn't have any time to sleep. And I love sleep.

I mean, i don't think one should jump the gun and make an internet post after not getting paid back for three days, but after extensive private efforts have been made to collect i see no problem outing people who don't pay debts. It's a service to others in the community who will be better informed before dealing with guys like Chino and Edog....And i haven't seen anybody mention taking a baseball bats to edogs nuts for nonpayment, so i guess that's good LOL

I have gone over whether or not I should post in this thread for the last few days now, and although I am still conflicted and am not prepared to share everything I just want to say the following.

I think with the exception of a few really "green" newbies to the gambling world. Nearly everyone who has had any dealings with Erick and is deciding now to post is a hypocrite.

And because I am now posting, that includes me.

We all knew that Edog was pretty much a piece of **** when it came to settling gambling debts. But as long as the Full Tilt money train was chugging along paying distributions, nobody wanted to speak up.

Now that its pretty clear that FTP is done, and so are any prospects of Erick being able to pay anyone back. Everyone is very quick to talk about what a horrible person he is.

And so here I am.

Erick, well he isn't such a nice guy.

If some of us (especially me) would have spoken up a long time ago a lot of the little guys who did business with him could have been spared.

I am not going to go into all the details, but I have known Erick since around 2004. From 2005-2006 he owed me a really large figure. I gave him a year to get his stuff in order and he was supposed to pay the whole amount off in 2006.

He didn't.

We then agreed on a payment plan of sorts but that never really took shape either.

From 2005-2007 I primarily kept my mouth shut about Erick, only told a few other sports gamblers here and there about how they needed to be careful doing business with him etc. The response I got from nearly everyone was, oh I know he's bad news. He owes me $$ as well.

After awhile I pretty much gave up on being quiet about the amount he owed me and ended up telling a few more respected poker players as well.

I even went as far as to ask FTP to intervene and direct some of his distributions to me, i had emails from Erick that confirmed that he promised to send a payment of X amount monthly from FT up until the debt of Y was resolved.

One of the main board members at FTP told me that they could never do this because it would be highly illegal and they didn't have the jurisdiction to do so or get involved. I understand how they wouldn't want to break any more laws seeing as how they were busy laundering money and buying banks to mask their financial transactions.

Erick still owes me a big figure its still probably one of the bigger amounts he owes. But its not nearly as big as it was in 2005. To his credit he has paid off around 80% of it -

To his detriment only about 10% of it came when he actually offered up the money. The other 70% came from;

Flying around the world hanging around some of his horse's final tables trying to scratch and claw to grab some money.

Coaxing the guys at matchbook to send me some of the money he had requested as a w/d directly to me.

Pestering, harassing him via email and text to get some payments sent my way.

Finding out he had agreed to sell / loan 1% FTP in exchange for a big payment and then confronting him about it and having him send me an amount then.

The latter was extremely frustrating because I have no doubt that if I hadn't found out about the loan / sale he never would have brought it up to me and I never would have gotten any money out of him.

Further he acted all indignant when I confronted him stating that the deal wasn't done and it may not get done so that was why never told me about it.

I am fairly certain that this was a load of bs.

I think at least one other transaction had gone down where he has sold a pct of his FT stake and I didn't hear about it and thus didn't get paid.

I'd also like to add that, if Erick really wanted to have paid off all his debts. He could have basically laid in bed / slept for a year or two and just paid everyone off.

His FT distributions were that big and he could have easily lived on a modest (sarcasm) 20-30k a month stipend and made everyone whole.

But that was never good enough, he was too busy popping off on sports or the big games on FTP.

I feel like a pretty big hypocrite for writing this now because there have been so many times over the years where I wanted to post about this earlier. I just didn't want to give Erick an excuse for slowpaying me even more.

I am a lot different nowadays. I used to get so tilted reading articles, blog reports or the famous Ryan Daut post where he talks about what a boss Edog was, all the while knowing that this guy owes me a bunch of money and for the most part didn't have the decency to try and bring the figure down.

The dude has owed me money for 6 years.

I don't really see much hope of getting paid off in full. Erick sent me an out of the blue email a few weeks ago stating how bad things were for him and that he is in real rough shape.

I am guessing that the impetus of that email was the fact that he was getting threatened by the fantasy sports dudes and he wanted to do some damage control ahead of time.

I like Daniels blog posts and video's a lot, I wanted to get this out here in the public before Daniel says something that downplays the whole situation.

I also sent Daniel a PM (a draft of one I meant to edit but didn't before sending) but I figured I was better off just posting here.

Its not merely a bunch of fantasy sports nits that are owed money, its a bunch of people spread all around the gambling world.

I'd also like to add that this isn't an example of new vs old -

I am about the same age as Daniel and Erick, I have been involved in gambling (mostly sports) for as long if not longer than these guys.

I have never met anyone who was as big a prick about paying off his debts as Erick. I have went bad in the past, have sold property, borrowed from family and friends and basically done whatever I could to make sure that my gambling debts were paid off in time.

Not paying a debt as soon as I could is simply not the way I or any of my close friends who gamble for a living were raised (and I was raised by a degenerate gambler who ended up going busto).

I have done business with people who went busto and couldn't pay. I have done business with people who basically said **** you I am not paying.

But I have never met a guy who was guaranteed as much money as Edog was from his FT investment, who spent money as lavishly as he did, who was basically allergic to paying his debts.

I remember reading the Dane Cook quote and thinking, must be nice to have all the money in the world, but not have the time nor inclination to pay back the people you owe.

If the whole thing wasn't as irritating as it is, it'd actually be quite sad.

Lies¡!! This post clearly was made at 4:28am EST.

Im considering starting a thread to expose this.

daniel, im a bit concerned you might be on thin ice here. the dogs of 2+2 are not going to give you an easy ride.

Sound's like Daniel is going to make a video blog and try to make this into a "old school" vs. "new school" issue. I definitely agree with the bolded and think Daniel is totally wrong in this case. There are definitely differences between old and new school; the erik lingren story is not one of them. There are plenty of "new school" degens who pull the same crap edog is pulling....I've been around a while myself and it's never been okay

Jerry Yang is another one - Very Humble and plays all types of buy-ins

Of course Negreanu doesn't want to defend Lindgren but sets up a smoke screen new vs old debate.

Daniel,

Is it safe to say that Erick and you aren't AS CLOSE as you used to be because of all the lying he has done?? I mean, if you and him were still really close it would have crossed my mind that you could have lent him the paltry $2800, right??? You obviously have borrowed and lent much much more. I don't know, something tells me E-dog owes you a nice chunk of change as well. No proof obviously but just speculation.

for those who aren't aware; coltranedog is sports bettor and poker player Haralabos 'Bob' Voulgaris. link to his 2+2 well

He was on HSP also right? IIRC he had a baller watch that they were talking about. Seems like a decent dude.

Coltranedog's post itt has to be one of the sickest in 2+2 history...

Thanks for sharing Haralabos...

I agree with you about "old school vs. new school". You don't need to read a book or play on the internet to learn these moves. Daniel you would do better to call it "reality vs expectations".

And people feel that this stuff only hold for gamblers? A non-poker/gambling friend of mine has been sharing a bunch of stories with me where he has been negotiating with credit collectors over his credit card bills. He settled his largest bill of $15k for 5. And the funny part is, in a few years, the credit card companies will be ready to gamble with him again. (Just like even after all this someone will invite EDog into their fantasy football league again.)

As many people have wisely pointed out, this stuff is across the board. I don't even want to think about what goes on within our government. (But if it's anything like the Department of Education where I worked for a few years we should be in the streets rioting.) We're just exposed to it more in the gambling community because the opportunity presents itself more and the turnover is much quicker.

Except all the smart people who know poker is a crap way to make money and are not surprised at all.

Sad story from Bob. I believe him 100% even i dont know these people personally my read on Bob is that he is 100% trustworthy( i could ofcourse be wrong just my look at the person)
What this all comes down to imho is that damn Full Tilt mess. These people around it just overpayed themself so out of the world 2 much money. Its a mess think about just over a year ago these people like Howard-jesus-Ivey-Lindgren were more or less role model for most players. Yes its LOL to think about it and today i dispice these idiots sry to say. Iam also sure most people look at them same way shame on these people. And ofcourse none of them have come forward with a little sry to the poker community

It really speaks volumes to their silence through all this, doesn't it??

By the way, has there been a Jesus sighting at all in the past year??? You know the weird part of all this is whenever Jesus does some some errands or something - I'm sure there are some people that don't understand about Black Friday and still ask him for his autograph or picture. I wonder what he must be thinking when that happens...

CF is hard to recognize without glasses and cowboy hat. Imagine when he shaves the goatie and gets a haircut...oh wait, this probably already happened.

Its just such a mess everything around these guys now. And as i said what has suprised me most is that not one of these people around full tilt has made a puplic statemeant about how sry they are about what has happened. For me that is just not human and shows what kind of people they are. I dont care if some PR or laywer has told them to shut up, if you are a descent human beeing you would do it period. So again shame on these idiots.

Lol at you for thinking those records should be private let alone ever will be private. Here is a tip for you, they will not be made private.

I am pretty sure you don't understand why they are public in the first place.

This. Haralabos is a lot of people's 2p2 hero for a reason.

someone posted website evidence that ferguson relocated to australia, and is now working as a driving instructor and has indeed changed his appearance in that way

can't seem to find the link

So the figure owed to Voulgaris had to be in the realm of 1mm. Explains that sick house he has in LA if he is winning bets that size And thanks for the full disclosure in posting

Seriously or joking??

I guess it's safe to assume Jesus will NEVER be playing at the WSOP again???

WOW

Would be great to hear a nice story for a change, not a day goes by without this type of thread - although they do have to be made.

Agree with Coltranedog's post, the guy obviously had and could have paid his debts, with his FTP salary' and had to slum it for 6 months or whatever on a 'modest $30k / month" lol.

seriously, but i can't find the post for the life of me, or any pics of the CF there is registered as an instructor at a perth driving school. i can't remember if the original poster had a pic or had seen him in person. it may not be reliable