Quote:

"So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO."

A couple points
Judge people? This guy owes a large sum of money to many people. He has owed some people money for half a decade. Seems like there's only one way to pass judgement on someone like that.

If you don't respect it and its ways blah blah blah? With time, everything evolves. In the 60s, people said Elvis danced too inappropriately. African Americans were looked down upon as a second class race. TV has evolved, society has evolved, and guess what...the gambling world has evolved! You can either get with the times or be left behind.

Sure, there was an "old gambler's code" of repaying debts, not shunning someone's name, etc. Information such as "Eric owes me $2800 for 4 months" was something that used to be said amongst gamblers and not outted to the entire world on an internet forum. Clearly, that time is no more. Now, the new gambling world is outing people on the world wide web. Whether or not you agree with this is irrelevant, its a fact that it happens.

Respect it or get hurt? What the gambling world used to be was, the juice runs, you don't pay up and your legs get broken. The person who gets hurt is the person with the debt, not the debt collectors. Luckily for some people, that time is passed and they can walk around without the fear or someone showing up with a baseball bat in the parking lot.

The old school vs new school thinking seems pretty ******ed to me.

1. You make a bet
2. You lose the bet and have to pay
3. If you cannot pay then let the person know you cannot pay and come to some sort of agreement about a payment plan
4. Don't just ignore the person and claim you will pay when you have no intention of doing so.

That's the thing that has annoyed me the most. EL actually told the guy that the cheque was in the post when it clearly wasn't! I don't care how big the bet was, that to me is just the lowest of the low. Flat out lying.

Honesty is the best policy.

I like this line

So to summarize your entire post, all poker players before 2004 & rounders in 1998 were a bunch of scumbags, degenerates, & losers. Now, the new school is college educated and a very strait laced group.

If the new school doesn't like the old school group of scumbags, degenerates, & losers, they can GFTO.

If the new school happens to get hurt or scammed by the old schools scummy ways, it is not the old schoolers scamming fault, but, it is actually the fault of the new schoolers for allowing themselves to be scammed.

Cool story bro.

So Erick is even mixing with notorious Irish bare knuckle boxer traveller Paddy Doherty now?

Of course outing scums is the right thing to do, no matter the situation. Sadly tho, things dont work like that. I feel many people scammed would want to tell what they know but for various reasons, they cant.

Some are in the position to be close friends with the scammer. Some are aware that their only way of seeing some money back is if the scammer scams someone else, sadly. Some just dont want the heat. And finally, some have something to gain from it.

If a friend told me he heard DN for example is a scammer who did this and that, what is my moral obligation in this case? To inform the public what I HEARD or to keep it to myself? You cant just go out there throwing names based on what you hear, in my opinion. And this is the case for the most.

Im sure every HS player and not only know of some shady dealings, most of them tho are not in the position to comment unless they were directly involved.

Lowest of the low? Yeah, rapists... murderers... liars about a $2800 debt... they're all pretty much the same.

Y'all must have led some REAL sheltered lives.

It's completely clear what Lindgren SHOULD have done. But there's no need for an extreme over-reaction to what he DID do.

As far as outing people, I have no particular problem with it either way. The creditor can do whatever he wants. But all the shocked reactions are pretty laughable. "E-dog LIED!11!1!!?!?!?!? But... he looks so ARYAN on the TV!!!"

damn, over 1000 posts :O...it's only money people!

lol @ thinking I was putting in the same context as those you have mentioned. If it wasn't obvious I was talking about the lowest of the low in gambling circles. You seem determined to defend EL when it is clear as day there is no defence. He owes people money and tried so lie his way out of it. Just admit to the guy you didn't have it and Im sure he would understand, in fact this thread probably wouldn't exist right now. He dug himself the hole, it's up to him to get himself out of it.

Hmmm. Sure seems like a lot of people needed that information about EL and weren't in a close enough circle. You do realise that once a scammer's immediate sources are cut off then they'll spread their net wider?

I agree with everything Bond18 posted.

The reason Daniel's very brief reply is so empty is that he is basically completely denying reality in an effort not to step on toes.

There is no doubt that the VAST majority of people in Erick's situation (prior to it being made public, of course) will continue to rip off people to feed their addiction or to try to get out of the hole etc etc. These people are generally not stupid and so they will OBVIOUSLY go more and more out of the standard box when seeking new prey to rip off. When their reputation is getting lower and lower among those 'in the know' or in the gambling circle or whatever, they will seek those who aren't well connected or who may be more naively trusting and so more innocent victims of the scams will perpetrate. The fact that Daniel thinks it is okay to keep it among private company who in his community is a crook (that's what these people are) is a disservice to everyone else.

Daniel, could you ever claim that had you outed Erick for being a degenerate scammer or if you out this mystery guy who has taken you for 500k, that it would not reduce the chances of those people scamming innocent victims in the community? I am sure you would agree that if you do so, their chances of securing victims going forward would be greatly reduced, and as such you would be siding with innocent people rather than protecting the reputations of degenerate, slimy, crooks.

To whoever the poster it was that said it isn't DN's job to out everyone he has heard is a degen, of course it isn't. I don't argue. But when his supposed best friend is one, or when he is directly ripped off 500k from someone, it IS his responsibility if he cares about innocent people in the community to make that info public. Those who are the scammers deserve NOTHING and the respect DN gives them is not okay. When you have direct and certain knowledge that someone is a thief, and you have a voice that could easily prevent that thief from being able to steal from innocent people again, it is shameful not to use that voice.

O O Can i jump on the trendy "hate poker now" bandwagon


dont let the door hit you on the way out

yeh just ignore all the wars and blame a poker player and a 2+2 poster

its gambling, if all ye people really thought the gambling world wouldnt have this and much worse going on it then your living in a f***in shell

dont be so surprised when ya find out

no one gives a **** that you americans need to pay 1/2 or 1/3 for gas as the rest of us and still cry about it.

Gossip about Eric Lindgren or similar degens or stfu please.

This is a pretty incredible post if true.

This is top drawer funny.

You're misinterpreting reality. DN is the most outspoken and honest personality in the game. How much does it say about him that he reads every post in this thread and has responded multiple times? Moreover, he has not disputed any of the facts; but he has--as he admitted himself--chosen his words carefully because what the hell else is he supposed to do? He can't spout meaningless dribble.

When DN was called out multiple times for not publicly outing slow-payers, he quickly responded with a well-reasoned response that he handles such issues more privately. You can make a case, I think, that he is obligated to out people on the internet, but to claim that he is denying reality is either a poor choice of words on your part, or utter idiocy.

I think you're misunderstanding of the broad picture here is that you think that there is a one-size-fits-all scammer; that if someone doesn't pay immediately then internet justice should strike quickly. I think this is a poor perspective on the issue, especially--especially!--when it comes to DN, who's integrity and openness are of the highest-order. You might disagree with DN, but I think you owe him enough respect to believe that he is acting reasonably and good faith. To claim he is denying reality is silly and insulting.

I know a guy who played Backgammon for like 100$ a game against some degen. He kept winning quite a bit over months and the other guy wanted to up the stakes to get even. Somehow he is now owed a couple 100.000 or even over a million - that other guy can not realistically pay that back ever.

Last time i saw him he was thinking about whether it would be better to just cut the debt to some amount he could be able to repay, like 20k or something or if he should lose intentionally so they get back to that amount.

Don't let yourself be freerolled...

Daniel explicitly said there is a guy who has scammed him for 500k. He says he will never see that money again. Anyone capable of doing that to DN is very capable of doing it to others. If DN doesn't make it public, those who aren't on the 'inside' in the gambling world are at risk of getting ripped off by this man. DN is rather selfish to keep such info private as he is putting the scammer and his own best interest ahead of the greater good and protecting future innocent victims.

DN doesn't live in NVG world. It's acceptable for him to bash FTP as this is probably the worst situation to ever happen in poker. (plus it's in his best interest to do so as the face of stars) But to ask/expect him to start outing every scumbag in poker is beyond ridiculous. He'd probably be ostracized from the poker community faster (again, the people he has to look in the face everyday, not NVG) quicker than the players he's outing.

Here is what DN said:

I'm owed personally a ton of money by a lot of people. I won't out them. In fact, I saw a guy last night in SJ, chatted with him for a while, and wont out him publicly. He owes me close to half a million and I'll probably never see a dime of it. I know Erick is also owed a boatload of money as well, whiich is somewhat ironic, but it's unlikely he'll see much of that.

For someone calling-out someone else for denying reality, your own grasp of reality is pretty damn unreliable.

LOL, RYO, you are a joke. Anyone with half a brain would not call it much of a leap to take DN saying explicity "I saw a guy last night in SJ, chatted with him for a while, and wont out him publicly. He owes me close to half a million and I'll probably never see a dime of it" as him saying he was scammed out of 500k. If he will never see a dime of it, he was scammed, period. If he had said "the guy is working to pay me off but i likely won't see 100% of that money ever, that would be VERY different but this guy has scammed him by deciding to not ever pay him off anything at all. Nice derail though, waste of my time and I won't be responding again.

I said he should out only those who he is 100% sure of and who he is directly involved with, hence, Erick as his best bud, and this mystery guy who has directly scammed him out of 500k. I don't expect DN (nor should he be obligated) to out someone just because he overheard or saw something that looked suspicious or because he was told by someone else that something shady exists. But when he is directly involved and is in a position to prevent innocent people from getting ripped off, I'd say it's fair game.

This +alot.

If you guys ask for his opinion and he gives it , Is that enough? Or do you break it down and scrutinize him because he was good enough to give it.

Daniel isnt these guys dad! **** man