and go to jail with alejandro the moustache guy with a big burrito

I considered this, but you realize since this was the main pot, it was already in the middle. The side pot wasn't actually formed yet since I covered and if I won it I would just have taken his stack.

The money was literally in a pile in the middle of the table, I would have had to reach over and sort through it to take out 18k.

Daniel I don't agree that the floors hands were tied. The first floorman understood the situation and ruled in my favor. It was only when the second floor guy was called that he gave the pot to the other player.

Is the house rule on running it twice just a random policy of the casino, or is there some sort of government rule in place?

yeah, well, take the biggest value chips.


oh, and go to jail for stealing money... with alejandro and his big burrito

Well there's probably nothing you can do now that's the problem with gambling in a random foreign location that don't speak your language because when situations like this come up you don't win very often.

Most certainly is, but not in a direct-cash way.

Casinos hate money-out, meaning if they give Dani 18k here, he's going to leave eventually with it and they aren't going to make a dime of it. But if they give it to the high-stake local, he gets a chance to give it to them eventually.

I know it's standard to get the pitchforks out in these situations, but I'll be the guy to ask this Q: is running it twice in multiway pots actually forbidden by house rule or not?

Sounds like you were boned, but need to know the above in order to determine how to apportion the blame. If that is indeed a house rule, then...well, you were obviously simply angleshot by old Spaniard, but it only underscores the importance of taking extra measures to protect yourself when playing in unfamiliar casinos, especially as you say that you'd already noticed several weird rules about running it twice before this hand came up. I know that's not the most sympathetic take and I'm not trying to rub salt in the wound, but it sounds like there were certain red flags that I think could have signaled that additional prudence was required in an unfamiliar foreign casino. The blame still lies with some combination of the Spaniard and the staff, but hopefully if nothing else this can serve as a cautionary tale for others. Sorry, just a crummy spot.

EDIT: I see that D.A. has chimed in above and confirmed that it's very much an established rule in this casino. I agree with everything else he wrote too -- blatant angle by the Spaniard, and monumentally aggravating to know that (a) you were getting freerolled, and (b) rules are often applied inconsistently by floormen. But if it's a house rule, I'm not sure what else there is to say other than that you were the victim of a nasty angle.

Disgrace I almost never post here but felt like I had to chime in. Personally Id just never play at shady casinos like this one seems, specially high stakes like this. Ive heard some terrible stories over the years of this casino and it seems ridic stars still put tourneys on here. Wouldn't suprise me If the old guy bribed the main floor guy to make sure he got the pot.

I just remember a pot 2 days ago, exactly same situation .
3 players gii pre, the 3 agree ton run it twice.
OTR dealer gives main pot to the winner of the first run and I told her she was wrong , the 3 players didnt understand why they should divide main pot.
I explained them when u run it twice its for all the money but they seemed surprised because they always did this only with side pot.
It seems like a misunderstanding / angle from old man in ur case, a bad ruling by the floor and an awful way to treat clients/foreigners by big floor.

This is why i think RIT should be banned, not jus because things like this but playing live is a nightmare anyway regarding time taken to play hands , ppl tanking etc.

if you need to RIT to 'lower variance' ur playing too high, so either play lower or grow a pair of balls and play to scoop, not getting in a pot and then time wasting starts , what you got, wanna RIT, wanna pull some back and RIT, all that bs

jus run it once and move onto the next hand

btw ul Ansky but looks like u got angled

Yeah cheated doesn't sound right. Angle, definitely. Kind of ironic that you run it twice to reduce variance yet opened yourself unknowingly to be free-rolled.

Dani, do you think the Spanish guy would have insisted on this very specific rule if he had lost the first run and got there on the second? I highly doubt it ...

Gee, you're the first to mention this.

**** no

To my understanding it's a government rule. You can run it twice only when heads up, not 3 handed. That's why you can do they side since that action is only heads up.

This is just weak sauce because you explicitly attempted to make it clear about running it twice for the whole pot and no one even mentioned that it would go against standard house rules.

I don't think it's simply a matter of getting angled. The dealers and floor are inviting this sort of thing by not enforcing their own rules and by not accurately communicating to players what the rules are. It's impossible for players to protect themselves if they're mislead about what the rules are by the people that are supposed to know.

If you want some levity in this thread, these days, I make barely north of 18K in a year. It's mostly choice, but this joke is on me and is not lost on me.

You shouldn't have had this happen to you, but I'm not surprised in a foreign speaking country that there'd be some possible shenanigans.

I hope you slay them.

Yea, because no cheating or shady activity ever happens in online poker!

what you run it twice nits deserve

Seriously though, I've never run it twice with people I don't know. Fortunately, I've never had to learn this one the hard way but this is why. Anything that only benefits angleshooters and nits has to go for the good of the game.

That might be best as a rule of thumb. Especially in an unfamiliar environment.

Sucks you got cheated, but how do you not inform yourself of such rules before playing this high in a foreign casino, esp. when playing PLO with a RIT option?

in before this is pokerstars fault

This is just really really awful. Ruling is bad enough but Spanish player is just cheating scumbag.

Man dude that **** is lame, I would go rabid.