Quote:
Originally Posted by swc123
FWIW that was me (GTORB creator not Pio) and I wasn't serious about the challenge. I thought that he was claiming that GTO solvers don't do what they say they do (it seemed that way to me at least) as he was speaking very negatively about Pio on reddit while trying to market his own product as an alternative. He said Pio was "basically terrible" without much detail as to why and I thought he meant he didn't believe the solution output was correct within the given bet sizing abstraction.
I said, "if you don't believe that GTO solver algorithms work then surely you would take this challenge" and he replied as the poster above stated. I meant it as a rhetorical device just to point out that if anyone really thinks that GTO solver's results are mathematically inaccurate as presented that they should then be willing to take on such a challenge. I did not mean it as a serious challenge that any sane person would agree to.
I then asked him if he'd play 20bb cap vs a GTO bot if I made one (which is a real game that people play for money) and he never responded. Thread is here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...64/index3.html
This is a quote from his post on reddit and then another user brought it up on 2p2 which sparked the discussion:
"I think PioSolver is basically terrible. I don't know what the high stakes six max players are using, and I'm not claiming to be one of the top players in those games. But what I can say is that the players in HU that use this type of software to play, end up playing horrific post flop."
This was in a thread where he was marketing his own preflop software that is not GTO based.
A late response but:
What I find interesting here is that I have been coached by member's of Doug's crew since late 2011 and I am familiar with the strategy. When I started looking at Piosolver, I was amazed at how similar our strategy and Pio's strategy(ies) are. Evil Empire jumped far ahead of the pack in arriving at optimal play long before solvers by simply doing a lot of hard work in the lab.
The obvious differences I see (without getting into too much detail) are in polarization methods and simply using combos for randomization rather than pio's pure frequency methods which are not possible to use if you are a mere human.
I think Doug's opinion of the solvers has some merit, but he is mostly incorrect. Human using solver to combat human will win, as is becoming evident by nightly human input to Libratus which has had tremendous results so far.