The following is from the DOJ press release. I am sure everybody who is posting ITT has read it.

"Full Tilt Poker further defrauded players by misrepresenting that player funds on deposit in online gambling accounts were safe, secure, and available for withdrawal at any time. In reality, the company did not maintain funds sufficient to repay all players"

Notice it says "player funds on deposit". Yes that means balances yet they used the word deposit.

So what is the DOJ compensating us for? They are compensating because we were unable to get our money that was on deposit with FT. The DOJ/remission people will give us our money that is or actually was supposed to be on deposit.

No matter how many times it is explained, the "deposit vs. balance" argument seems to go on forever.

Yes, it is rather straight forward but there will always be trolls.

So let me get this straight, the DOJ is upset that FTP didn't have enough $ to cover the amount that players had on deposit. However, now that the DOJ has recovered enough $ through a settlement agreement to repay said "funds on deposit" the DOJ isn't going to allow players access to that $ either.

I mean are you guys real?

the ponzi charge didnt even have its day in court yet. its still only a charge not a conviction. the doj could not even treat the " player funds " like they where ponzi scheme proceeds. they are payin balances. F anyone who says otherwise

Hmm

Although the term ponzi scheme has come up, I don't think it ever was used in any of the actual charges.

A ponzi scheme usually would require the promise of returns on investments. FTP could hardly claim to promise you that you would win at poker.

THIS!

I explained both sides the DOJ is considering to my wife today, and she just looked at me and said, "Is the government ******ed?"

It is the DOJ' s position that WE also violated the law. We just haven't been indicted. If they decide not to pay out winnings this will be theory

Tell your wife "obviously"

Nah its not. But welcome to the party, we needed some more trolls.

This.

One more thing though. You people have waited for 15 months, you were not even sure if you would get a dime back. Wait a month more, you would know what you'll get. Stop being paranoid.

If DoJ decides to refund only the deposits, there is pretty much nothing we can do, except to petition. I would rather chill and wait for their announcement. So stop banging your heads and let the river flow.

"not to mention the logistical nightmare of figuring all of that out"

That sounds like a silent prayer

lol its like all the posts im reading is by people who think the doj going to bat for them and off course theyll do the "right" thing..Keep thinking that.

So some of you people actually think that these statements both make sense?

Player A deposits $100, runs it up to $10,000, and DOJ gives him $100 back.

Player B deposits $100, loses it , deposits another $100 and loses $75 and DOJ gives him $200.

Tell me how this makes any sense at all in a rational world!

lol @ thinking DOJ will refund deposits and not balances. So the fish who lost 300k playing poker over 6 years now with 0 balance on black friday is going to magically get his 300k back while somebody with a million dollar balance gets $20?

Or how about the fact that the overall deposits over FTP's lifetime FAR exceed the total amount the DOJ is getting. Total deposits is likely in the BILLIONS.

Its laughable that people believe this is even a possibility.

Say DOJ only refunded deposits.

FTP started with $0 deposited.

the DOJ would have to give back every dime FTP raked over its entire lifetime AS WELL as the ENTIRE amount of player balances.

OH WAIT!!! Lets not forget about player withdrawels as well added in there.....

*facepalm* Can this discussion move on the something worth a damn?

Obviously he gets nothing and owes the DOJ $999,980 (Asuming he cashed out $1 million)



The whole, only paying deposits back is completely stupid. The DOJ would have been better to not have allowed a sale at all. They would get as much heat, maybe less, from having no sale, then they will get from only paying US players there deposits. (Also we would have to ignoring the fact that the amount of US deposits would way surpass the amount that PS paid to the DOJ)

I suppose they could always only refund your deposits up to the amount that was in your account on Black Friday.

Like whether only heavy-duty foil makes effective tin hats?

I give up. Back to lurking.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. According to the dictionary, "on deposit" describes money which is saved in a bank or something similar. To me, this seems synonymous with the term "account balance" which is the sum of credits and debits to an account. Online poker accounts experience rapid debits and credits during play and the the amount "on deposit" is the amount available at any given time, or, account balance.

Consider some other investment account. Say you deposited $10,000. Five years later, at 5% compounded annually, with no other contribution, your amount "on deposit" would be $12,762.82. That is the total amount available which includes principal investment + interest. In the FTP scenario, the amount on deposit is the initial deposit (investment) + or - winnings/losses (interest).

I obviously didn't read this entire thread so if I'm beating a dead horse here then I apologize but WTF is with all the paranoia in this thread?

It'll work itself out fine, all we need is just a little (more) patience.

It makes no sense whatsoever in the rational world. Unfortunately for us, we are dealing with the government and the DOJ here, something very different from the rational world.

Obviously this is just speculation, but based on what they've done in the past, it could very easily be that the amount of compensation is based on neither deposits or balance. The DOJ may very well set up a complicated and amorphous compensation petition that leaves it up to the player (and their lawyer) to cobble together a statement on what they think they are owed, and why, and attach copies of any proof that supports their petition. It will then be up to bureaucrats to decide how much they think you are entitled to, if anything. People who don't think it's worth the time, money, and effort to battle the DOJ for compensation will just give it up all together. Those who think its worthwhile will pay a lawyer and hope that they can cobble together (or have saved) all their banking for the past 5 years.

Certainly some people will get some money back, but I would estimate the chances that the majority of US players are happy with the ultimate outcome when compared with ROW players as very, very low.

Odds you're willing to lay if a suitable escrow is found?

Deposits-only scenario would literally turn the world upside down. Biggest losers (Guy, scout) would become winners and enjoy the millions, biggest winners would lose almost everything.

It's hard to believe they would seriously consider doing this (especially since there are valid legal reasons for why not to). I'm not from the U.S., but I'm rooting for all you guys.

What you seem yo be missing is that the DOJ is not a single entity with one consciousness. The people that were upset they didn't have all of our money are not the people that will be making the decision as to what our refunds will be based on.

That decision will be made by someone on the asset forfeiture and money laundering committee yet to be named.

You are right. The term 'on-deposit' means 'balance' in the article, but the jist of the article remained the same--that they were 'feeling uncomfortable' about paying players their winnings. Regardless I think the Forbes article was overdramatic for a few reasons and that we're getting paid 'significantly' as the DOJ has already said.