Do it.

hes just 1 guy a part of a whole failed company, i believe him in what he said n interview hes genuine. i mean u wanna ban alll of ftp guys guess?

he just poorly helped run a businss into the ground, 2+2 people should be more upset with the DOJ more than howard, go march on their lawns with picket signs, they have the $$$ and are choosing not to pay it

Seems pretty dumb. He has done nothing against any Aria rules. They can't just ban customers because they are bad people.

Private businesses can refuse service to anyone they want for any reason that isn't race, creed, or gender

Now that is the rub isn't it? So we start banning players for this, banning players for that . . . Who gets to be the judge, where are we drawing the line? What happens when YOU get on that list? Will you think it's a good idea then?

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

MGM banned Russ Hamilton

just shoot him and get it over with

Drunk chick ITT

And yes I think it would be a noble gesture to leave when the man enters a room... Or, conduct a sit out until he leaves maybe. It needs to be done. I also do not feel the others ( who can reasonably be associated with some sort of shady goings on at FTP1) should get a walk either.

This saved me some typing.

Ok Mark275 officially outs himself as elaborate troll. Nobody is this clueless.

Hi Everyone:

I find this a troubling development and believe that a petition is not the way to go.

First, I want to state that the purpose of 2+2 management when it comes to Howard Lederer is to be an honest broker. We believe that the best thing that can happen is the more information that gets out there the better, and that's been the role we're trying to play.

Also, I want to point out that during the past few years the news concerning poker has not been good and I'm sure there's no one here who doesn't already know this. But one bright spot has been the opening and running of the Aria Poker Room. Not only is the room in a great new Casino Hotel, but both Adam Altwies, their Poker Room Manager, and Leon Wheeler, their swing shift manager, are top notch. The reason I mention their names is that I happen to know both Adam and Leon well, but in my opinion, the whole staff is as good as it gets.

So this brings us to someone named Nick DiVella, who I don't know, who apparently wants to circulate a petition in an effort to make sure Lederer never plays poker again at The Aria. I believe this is a mistake for two reasons.

1. One of the reasons you have top notch management is that they can make decisions such as this. While I'm privy to no inside information, I'm sure there has been much discussion on this topic.

2. I'm also troubled by the idea that a player might make an attempt to disrupt the operation of a poker room just because something exists that he does not like. Plus the call to boycott if Lederer can continue to play is not something I would ever support. Over the years, I've seen a few top notch poker rooms either closed down or reduced in size because a casino felt that slots were more profitable, and don't think that something like this can't happen again.

But of course there is another side to this coin. Good poker room managers have good communication with their customers, and in this case, I'm sure that if DiVella wanted to have a conversation with either Adam Altwies or Leon Wheeler, it could be easily arranged and a good thorough meeting woul take place.

In addition, these forums are also a good place to have discussions like this. In fact, I think there have already been similar threads, but if Nick DiVella wants to come on here and give his reasons as to why certain decisions should be made, and his reasons are good, valid ones, I'm sure he's more likely to get something accomplished than the path he's currently traveling.

Besr wishes,
Mason

Especially when banks have insurance, and the many players who were rbbed have lost their net worth with no insurance and no recourse to retrieve their money.

Reducing what Lederer has done to the level of just something someone doesn't like doesn't seem quite right.

Who the ban is against and why doesn't matter. Once the players have agreed to boycott a room if changes arent made (for any reason), puts pressure on the room. Aria now has to decide who is more important..HL or the dozens of staple rake paying players who will quit giving aria their business if changes arent made. Given that the petition is filled, it should be an easy decision for Aria as long as theyre convinced the players will follow through.

Yexactly.

Here's my prediction:

This guy files his petition w/ 50+ signatures, HL doesn't get barred, and only the one guy stops playing there. For 2 weeks at most.

It's amazing to me how so many are trying to defend an obvious Ponzi-Scheme Operator. Bottom line......our money was not there when it came time for them to pay out. Hide behind all the "internet" legal-e's you want but if you commit a rape in country that has no laws about rape, you still committed a rape in the view of most people.

If the customers/victims at Aria feel a Petition is the way to go, then ITS THE WAY TO GO. Companies & Government Groups in this country receive allegations of illegal/immoral conduct all the time, and it's considered acceptable practise for them to review the info, and make a decision as to weather to allow the accused to continue to work till results of a legal trial, suspend the accused WITH pay, or suspend the accused w/out pay till results of a Legal Trial.

Think it's TOTALLY acceptable for Aria to ask/tell this guy to stay away.

If your that worried about the potential of Aria's Poker Room losing business because of this.....you might want to ask Howard (OUT OF RESPECT TO ALL INVOLVED) to stop going there till such time as all FTP players are made whole, or the US Govt has concluded he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

Now ban me from 2+2

Mason, for such a long post, you make two incredibly weak points. Of course players should attempt to change the rules of the poker room if there is something they do not like about them. He is not causing violence or doing anything illegal in the poker room, he is saying don't go play at a place that supports and accepts players regardless of what they have done in the past. As players we have a right to choose where we play, and based on all reasonable evidence HL has stolen money from us, and there is nothing unreasonable about not wanting him to play poker or be associated with it in any way in the future.

And it's amazing to me how so many don't get that you don't have to like somebody to defend them. For example, I don't like your post, but I would defend you if they chose to ban you for it. Voltaire and all that.

If he waited until the players were paid before showing his face in the high limit games/tournaments, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but I would still despise the guy. Just sitting there playing the big 400/800 mix or whatever he plays while the room has numerous players who could have money locked up online (whether it be life changing or not) is essentially a big middle finger to the poker community. Although he may be a massive nit and easy money, I wouldn't give him a chance to play a hand of poker with me. Not after what he and his "company" put me through the past year and a half.

And theres the problem exactly. Already we have two seperate opinions, which one is worse? Who are we to decide? Do we need to do this with everyone? Is stealing worse than murder? Do we need a price on murder, like stealing 1million is worse than murder, but 100k is less than murder.

We'll call it the Poker Court Room. I'm sure the Aria will allow us one of their conference rooms so we can trial every player once we dot the i's and cross the t's

I believe putting peoples lives in danger with a weapon and stealing directly to fund yourself is worse than what Howard did. Do you think if a theif walks into a bank expecting to get 30k, finds 2mill in cash hes going to say "oh its ok I only need 30k, leave the rest"? No, hes taking all of it, because that what theives do. Ethically its all exactly the same, whether they get 30k or 300million, theyre stealing

And I believe a robber has more 'steal' in him than Lederer, who ran a business terribly and got the carpet pulled from him at the worst possible time, and also wasnt acting alone/making all the decisions.

But thats just my opinion, and when we start banning people based on other peoples opinions, it'll get really messy

We know Howard is a jerk and his actions ****ed up a lot of people, but we just cant try to get him banned from a poker room on the grounds of morality

This. Also note that banks cover all losses in those cases immediately (customers don't even feel the sting). US former FTP players are STILL F5'ing twoplustwo for the tiniest piece of news about their cash.

Howard isn't playing his own money, hes playing someone elses, money he stole. A ton of players are unable to play poker while he is, and hes responsible for it.

Disagree w/ this part, but what about on the grounds of making us feel better? We all woke up every morning and got a solid kick to the nads by this **** for 19 months straight. Making that group of people feel better by banning this epic douche from something he likes is more than fair, imo.

glad someone is trying something.

And then what...........sat at the 5/10NL game and made his boycott known?