who exactly does own them? and what is the mark seif connection?

Absolute is owned by a company called Tokwiro Enterprises, although not much is known about Tokwiro's ownership and management structure.

http://pokerworks.com/article-1371.html

Mark Seif is a spokesman for Absolute.

I conclude that Joseph Tokwiro Norton is the "front" owner, not the actual owner.

yeah thats probably not the whole truth though. If i remember correctly from those absolute threads its highly likely some of the people at least partially implicated in that mess (Scott Tom and his frat buddies) have some kind of ownership of absolute.
Also what is excapasa (sp?) i remember it being named as the comapany that supposedly bought UB (and owned AP) back when that happened.
I just think 60 minutes has a greater chance to get to the bottom of this then the BBV detectives (who already did awesome work)

Tokwiro Enterprises, owned by ex-Kahnawake Chief Joe Norton, who founded Mohawk Internet Technology in 1999 with a US-backer, and is now the server to over 400 online gaming sites, including AP, UB, and Full Tilt.

So the Kahnawake are just "regulating" the Kahnawake, which explains the mere $500,000 fine AP got for the biggest online poker scandal ever.

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/news.asp

Thanks DrewOnTilt.

how is the software for each site developed then?

anyone know?

I remember that as well. That's why I posted earlier that not much is known about their true ownership.

For those of us who DO think all the major sites are rigged, a 60 Minutes story exposing that is quite welcome. Maybe it will be a step towards cleaning it up.

Go ahead and flame for thinking that, I don't care.

like posted before, we can only hope that they expose ub/ap/kgc for the **** they are, and then show the credible, safe, and good sites and their measures to allow this to never happen, which will in turn, attract all the fishies chasing their chance for fame (show some ballas that live off of stars/ft, ie cts, krantz, etc), which in turn, at least hopefully for the good sites, STARS/ft, will be a good thing.

it cant be all that bad, of course it all depends on the stance they take though. I hope they wont be so biased and not show both sides of the online world

I'm suprised by this given that they haven't contacted me.

We have grown up watching 60 minutes. For many of us, it took a long time to realize that the management of CBS have their own personal and political reasons for presenting the stories the way they do.

Imo, internet poker is at a crossroads whereby, if the US does not change the current legislation, the market will mature and stagnate. If positive legislation does happen, we may have a significant spike in the market as many players will feel 'comfortable' playing online.

Many people in the baby-boom generation, which I am a member, do not trust online gambling. Too easy to cheat and collude and no strength in the regulations.

We have the money and the interest to play but continue to either play very low limits online or do not play at all. We still will go to b&m poker room and events that we feel are run fairly, honestly and of course have regulations.

How 60 minutes slants this segment may be the critical component in determining the direction that online gambling will take in the near future.

Just my thoughts.

The majority of you guys have absolutely (no pun intended) no clue and many of you contradict yourself most of the time.

Putting up Full tilt, party, pokerstars, etc. as models of security yet condemning Kahnawake as a jurisdiction is laughable. All of those sites and many others are or have been licensed by the KGC. I assume the very controls that you applaud have been developed in concert with the regulator and with the industry as whole. One or two (or three even?!?!) bad apples does not justify describing the whole organization as "bad".

Does one "bad" executive mean a whole company is bad?????
Does one "bad" energy company mean the whole energy sector is "bad"?!?!?!? Does one "bad" trader mean that the regulators of traders are "bad"?
Does one ex-politician who goes into private business mean all the people he formally worked with are "bad"?

Look at other scandals in other industries and critically evaluate what was done. Almost everyday there is one scandal or another. Are the regulators at fault in all of these cases? Is the jurisdiction's government bashed for the incident? Is everyone remotely involved labeled as corrupt? There is no industry that perfectly regulated, none! What do regulators do: make rules, apply those rules, investigate when rules are broken, learn and strenthen the broken rules so that they are not broken again, and punish the rule breakers to act as deterent, etc.

In the AP case did all effected players get their money back? The same can not be said to have happened in other scandals.

There are very few black and white issues and as poker players this community should be one of the first to realize that. The 60 minutes story can be very good for the industry but it can also be very bad. I have learned that extremists on either side of an issue either a) have other motives or b) are simply stupid.

Id luv to see a well balanced story about this issue, whether or not 60minutes wants to make it balanced or just do the "online poker is rigged!!!" deal is the only thing that concerns me.

When the Absolute Poker saga was first bought to attention here they boasting being certified by TST (Technical Systems Testing) a company with branches in Australia, Canada and United Kingdom. When the allegations (read facts came to light and took hold), Absolute Poker obliged in embarrassing TST by taking down the notice of certification!

The founder and 100% owner of TST has subsequently been charged in relation to child pornography in his native Australia. The TST website simply states (he resigned as CEO)... ho hum... if I 100% own a company it doesn't matter what name I give myself dude - I call the shots, I collect the bucks!

Does the Kahnawake Commission still recognise these guys?

Why did Absolute Poker protect TST?

Why did TST approve Absolute Poker's system in the first place?

Is this Australian paedophile related to the auditors chosen by the Kahnawake Commission?

Frankly monies that may or not have been stolen by *******s in Panama is minor compared to the acceptance in our society of paedophiles.

Yet TST with the same owner remain licensed by the UK Gambling Commission where they have an absolute policy of “protecting children”!

Will 60 Minutes or any of the UK tabloids expose this inherent corruptness that runs through the gambling industry?

Children are more precious than money!

*not embarrassing TST*

I think that its kinda interresting actually.

You are British i assume (spelling of paedophile not as pedophile like the Americans like. Because its really really idiotic to say any society is acceptant of paedophilia, especially the UK where a few years ago a paedeotrician was attacked when a newspaper (news of the world?) started posting the addresses of sex offenders and the mob was out in force (and stupidity).

There is no inherent corruptness running through the gambling industry.

Just because the CEO of a company committed a crime (as aweful as it is) in his spare time shouldnt wipe out the company he was at the healm of. It is also key to note he was charged, not convicted. Whether you can justify working with a company that is owned by a convicted paedophile (assuming he will be convicted) it is irrelivent to this subject at hand and the UK Gambling Commission.

Again, there is no inherent corruptness running through the gambling industry. But feel free to show more evidence than one person in this TST owner guy and the failings of Absolute security (to put it mildly).

So............ any update on this situation?

Is this story happening?

Think you're getting a fair deal when gambling online? Think again - we investigate one corrupt online poker company that stole millions from it's customers.


This will be great for online poker.

Their budget is a little tight. I mean, after all, they'd have to call Australia, hire an interpreter, and, if they wanted to film you, send a camera crew half way around the world.

I think they instead sent Katie Couric to investigate undercover at the "seedy strip joints and the Del Rey" where the AP guys are reputed to have blown all the money they stole. Who knows, that might even cover their costs and certainl would net more interesting footage.

I think a better bet is that the user 'twoup' is Australian.

We also spell the same way, and further, 'twoup' is a common Australian game (heavily connected to ANZAC Day which was last week).

Since I made that post, 60 Minutes has contacted me.

Given that I now work for a competitor of Absolute Poker, I envisage that it would not be appropriate for me to comment to them - or anyone else - on the story further.

sorry i didnt read all the posts... but i think this will be bad overall for american poker players. Basically everyone is already biased about what they think about poker... I actually got into an arguement with an older English gentlman who told me poker is just gambling. I tried to explain it is different but he somehow knew that is was 'scientifically proven' to be pure gambling, and that 'a judge in England ruled that it was mostly a game of luck, with some skill' so obviously i was wrong and just another gambler. This will obviously just focus on the aspect of how many billions of dollars goes into this 'rigged' system and how it is unregulated etc etc. Def not good overall and will probably delay the legalization of online poker in the US.

This could also be bad....

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...msftlaw29.html

I think this would be very bad for us all.

This will be worst thing for online poker since the UIGEA. If Absolute Poker or any poker players participate in the story, 60 minutes will totally manipulate (by editing) the context of any press release and/or content of interview footage. Not only will this spread negative public opinion but will also impact the European stock-pricings of publicly-traded online gaming companies.

http://www.doylesroom.com/blog/

"60 Minutes called and wants to interview me on the passing of the UIGEA bill. I hope it doesn’t get me into trouble because I am going to speak my piece about it. Will it get me into trouble with the DOJ? Hopefully not. They know everything about everything anyway."