Thanks for reply, had few more questions so would be awesome if you could answer so is tigergaming on the same network as BOL and Sbag, and i can still play on all 50 states?

Also how does PT4/HM2 track hands on Sbag and tigergaming or do i need a converter if there is such a thing?

The late registration bug was killed.

Numerous players have reported, with screenshots even, of getting refunds for playing against players who "violated ToS".



Tiger Gaming is on the same Chico Poker Network. However, TG does not allow US players on their skin.

PT4/HM2 do not work by default on CPN. You will need some sort of hand converter if you wish to run either of those programs.

--
Kahn

Are there any sites that don't allow HUD's that a Mac user from NY could play on?

Global Poker does not allow the use of a HUD.. Also, to my knowledge, there is not a mainstream HUD compatible with the site.

I have money on all of the major US facing sites. Is Global Poker worth a deposit? Are Paypal cashouts easy? I've shy'd away from this network thus far because of it's sweepstakes model but I don't want to avoid it simply out of ignorance at this point.

Thanks. I think I'm going to get off sportsbetting.ag and move over to Global

Global Poker has their own thread on this forum. You'll find the answers there.

*

Edit/MH: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/252/global-poker/

As if WA state didn't suck enough.

I've been playing 2 table SNGs on Pokerstars for play money for fun, I can't play real money online and I don't have time to go anywhere to play. Now they just stopped allowing play money games in WA state.

Just in case anyone else runs into this, I emailed support and ended up getting a helpful link about what they will refer to as a "recent court decision" initially if you ask them about this. Seems to me this is the fault of someone lost their play money chips and sued about it.

Cheryl Kater v. Churchill Downs / Big Fish Casino

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...8/16-35010.pdf

"...held that Churchill Downs’ virtual game platform “Big Fish Casino” constituted illegal gambling under Washington law"

LOL US legal and law system. Can't even play with fake money. This country has damn near gone full ******.

everything's illegal unless they can be taxed

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!



--
Kahn

I'm new to online poker and this forum and trying to do my due diligence before making deposits. I've been looking through the individual threads for each site, but I'm wondering if there is a side-by-side comparison anywhere on here of the different US poker sites listing pros and cons of each. Also interested in general opinions but I gather a lot is up to personal preference. Much thanks!

No.

Well, it would probably be helpful if you provided some information. Like state, what games you play, stakes, what's important to you, etc.

In NY, play NL Hold-Em, interested in playing mostly micro-low stakes cash games for the time being and the occasional MTT. I'm not on the BTC train yet so want to be able to reliably deposit/withdraw through credit card or bank account which may mean I'm SOL in NY. I'd prefer to play against real people not bots as much as possible.

Is betonline legit ? I only played a few games on there

There is a BOL, etc, thread at https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1621890/

I can't find anything current or complete. I'm looking to expand beyond Carbon, Players Only, and Sportsbook, but I can't seem to find any other choices. BetOnUSA and Oddsmaker apparently both run Merge software but they aren't accepting new players for some reason. YouWin doesn't accept Americans. Are there any other choices out there for me?

p.s. I would have posted this in an existing thread but the only relevant ones I see are Merge (Carbon only) and the withdrawal thread.

Thanks bro

See below: From the ruling

Big Fish Casino’s Terms of Use, which users must
accept before playing any games, state that virtual chips have
no monetary value and cannot be exchanged “for cash or any
other tangible value.” But Big Fish Casino does contain a
mechanism for transferring chips between users, which can
be utilized to “cash out” winnings: Once a user sells her
chips on a secondary “black market” outside Big Fish
Casino, she can use the app’s internal mechanism to transfer
them to a purchaser. Plaintiff-Appellant Kater alleges that
Churchill Downs profits from such transfers because it
charges a transaction fee, priced in virtual gold, for all
transfers. In other words, Kater alleges that Churchill
Downs “facilitates the process” of players cashing out their
winnings.

Pokerstars used to allow transfers, but several years ago stopped. I think this coincided with Pokerstars selling play chips. So I don't believe what Pokerstars does falls under this ruling.......

More likely, they just don't want to bother with the play chip market in Washington State

The section you quoted is not part of the actual opinion, it is a summary prepared by some court clerk, and a bad summary at that.

The reasoning in the opinion is that the play chips are a "thing of value" because they allow you to purchase the "entertainment value" of continuing to play the games. The court actually rejected the argument that the selling of the chips on a secondary market has anything to do with it. By the reasoning of the opinion being able to purchase additional chips is also not relevant to the determination of it being illegal gambling. Even if the chips were 100% free they still are a thing of value because they are required to get the entertainment value of playing the game.

The opinion also states that any position the WA Gambling Commission takes that play chip games do not constitute illegal gambling is not relevant, it's the court that decides the law not the Gambling Commission.

Because this is a Reported Opinion by an Appeals Court it becomes law and can be cited as precident. Also this is a Federal Appeals Court so this decision constitutes US Federal law and applies to the entire US not just Washington.

The decision has special meaning in Washington state because they have additional laws that allow the gambler to recoup any money they spent to buy play chips. But to repeat this decision states that play chips are a thing of value and that makes play money games illegal gambling anywhere in the US under any definition of gambling I have seen for any state. If any other looser launches a similar lawsuit anywhere else this could blow up fast.

There are only two ways around this, either the decision gets over turned by the US Supreme Court or state laws will have to specifically carve out and define play chip games as not being illegal gambling.

There is almost no chance the Supreme Court would take this on. They only take on cases they see as being important or where there is a split between different district courts. This decision is by the 9th Circuit so if one of the other Circuit's decided a similar case differently then maybe the Supreme Court would consider it but even then I doubt they would see this as important.

Tldr; Play money games are now illegal gambling under US law unless specifically authorized by state law. The "Land of the free" is only the next Preet Baharra away from being shut down and protected from the scourge of play money gambling.

***

I reread the opinion and it may not be as bad as I first thought.

The determination of a "thing of value" was based on Washington State law. Therefore what is a "thing of value" in Washington may or may not be a "thing of value" in other states.

Based on that this probably stays confined to Washington state but there is still some potential it could expand beyond that if similar lawsuits are filed in other states. This is still a published opinion by a federal circuit Court so it can be cited as precident.

So after all the concerns that others have posted, does anyone still recommend online poker for U.S players?

All the sites have NLHE action, as it is the most popular form of poker by far. Poker is built like a pyramid, with the most action at the small stakes at the bottom. Virtually any poker room will have micro-stakes NLHE action.

My advice is to use your credit card or bank account to buy crypto-currency such as BTC and deposit that way. It isn't terribly hard to set up and it is far easier in the long run than waiting a week or three for paper checks, having CC deposits denied, etc.

The fears about bots are overblown. Bots are not as prevalent as some people would lead you to believe. However, they do exist at every single poker site in the world to a varying degree. It is a constant war between the sites to identify and boot them, and the bot makers to sneakily get past the detection methods. The good news is that most bots are cookie cutters that suck at the game.

Yes, Bet Online is a legit poker room that pays out winnings.

Even if you could play at Oddsmaker, you should avoid them. They have a troubled past.

It sounds to me by the tone of your post that you are a winning player who has been booted from numerous Merge skins. If that is the case, you're SOL in the US at this point. Time to find new a new pond.

Yes.

--
Kahn

Seriously? You're either

a) ignorant to the current bot situation and don't believe what I've been saying about Chico. I know of nearly 50 active bots just in their 25-100nl cash games. I've seen several more. My offer for you to see my evidence is still open to you. They are not cookie-cutter by any means. Some of these bots have very advanced strategies. Certainly more advanced strategy than the vast majority of real regs you will find at the same stakes. Some of the most money at those stakes is going directly to bots.

b) lying. I really hope not, but this post's dismissive attitude about the current bot climate in online poker, given all of the evidence to the contrary, truly makes me consider it as a possibility.

I'm strongly backing up point A) with more than 300K hands on various bots at chico.
More than 500K if I count the other 2 of my friends who are regs at 25-100NL there.

+1

Just my two cents BUT for someone like Kahn who seems very knowledgeable and cognizant on this site about purportedly helping online poker players navigate the field of where to play in the land of unregulated online poker AND regulated online poker sites available, A) almost seems illogical to me at this point. Ignorant? Doubtful. Of course, I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong but not for my sake.