Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread [Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread

04-22-2024 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
Sure, most anything is justifiable in a solver if you fiddle with parameters. ThatÂ’s kind of the point, that obv calling T6dd is not a big mistake if at all, and when you program a bot youÂ’re aiming for simplicity and donÂ’t mind sacrificing small amounts of EV in some spots.

Again, what is being claimed the bot can do is extraordinarily complicated from a coding perspective and itÂ’s much more likely that the bot plays a fixed strategy using exploitative ideas and grinds mass volume which is the point of building a bot and is how you make money in poker anyway rather than being some kind of gto god.
You used the hand as a way of providing evidence the bots play a fixed (non GTO) strat, but if you have the wrong parameters, it is not evidence of what you claim.

I don't know if the bots can do things that are "extraordinarily complicated from a coding perspective", but several regs are saying they are and you are showing that hand as evidence they are not.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
04-22-2024 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeowth
You used the hand as a way of providing evidence the bots play a fixed (non GTO) strat, but if you have the wrong parameters, it is not evidence of what you claim.

I don't know if the bots can do things that are "extraordinarily complicated from a coding perspective", but several regs are saying they are and you are showing that hand as evidence they are not.
Lol my parameters are wrong because they’re not the ones you used?
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
04-22-2024 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
Lol my parameters are wrong because they’re not the ones you used?
I'm saying that when I can fiddle with wide ranges to put that hand squarely inside a GTO solution, it is more likely you used the "wrong" parameters than "the bots are playing fixed strat".

I'm not even saying you're wrong! Just that the hand you showed is not strong evidence.

Do you have any more hands like this?
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
04-22-2024 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeowth
I'm saying that when I can fiddle with wide ranges to put that hand squarely inside a GTO solution, it is more likely you used the "wrong" parameters than "the bots are playing fixed strat".

I'm not even saying you're wrong! Just that the hand you showed is not strong evidence.

Do you have any more hands like this?
Possibly of that same type (SRP), I already didnÂ’t find much and that bot account is no longer active so I am gathering hands from new profiles but there is some time lag because I have to identify them first. But yeah I do have a number of hands of bots doing things that arenÂ’t solver .
As far as stuff IÂ’ve posted, there are several hands in the ACR botfarm thread showing obvious preflop mistakes that the $40 MTT bots are making. loose aggressive preflop plays like stacking off with AJo AQo for 50+bbs that might not be bad against the player pool but that are exploitable if you know them.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
04-23-2024 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pontylad
Ralph, you were trying to argue this point with a 20knl reg in the NVG thread, who is far better versed with these bots than any of us. I think it has been pretty well established how these bots are playing, they are basically using solvers on the fly, while also being able to exploit player pools and individual players based on their stats. You keep suggesting they have a fixed strategy, they don't, it's highly adaptable to player profiles.

Of course any bot that exploits player pools is also going to be semi exploitable itself but absolutely no where near to the degree all the 200nl regs in this thread seem to think. This point is being made ad-nauseam everywhere but you post a 2 hand sample to show how easy it is to exploit the bots because turn small bets are always value. I can't tell if you're trolling or not? They use small sizing as bluff too? They also seem to be updating/adjusting/perfecting the bot strategies too. I'm not saying the games aren't beatable, It really depends on the make up of the tables you are playing, but you guys are not crushing the bots or anything close to it.





Add in card sharing and collusion and you are drawing dead for sure. Some of the egos involved in this argument are lol.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 09:28 AM
I am saying just do the math. The reason people win more money and live poker at the same stakes it's not necessarily because the players are worse, which they might be it's mostly because the pots are bigger. If you're going to keep the pot small you're going to win less money that's just simple math. I don't understand why people online don't get this. The win rates at pot limit Omaha are bigger because nobody makes these small bats. So most of the hands are heads up just like six Max hold them but the win rates are at least double. You have to ask yourself why. The reason is because they don't make the small bats the parts are always bigger because people are betting pot or close to pot
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 09:48 AM
dude if you bet 20% on flop and 100% on turn in a 3bet pot, you're not "keeping the pot small" just because you c-bet 20%

you still end up all in by the river
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 09:53 AM
Jungmit isn't worth engaging. He's already demonstrated he doesn't understand math with his RNG fixing rants. He's also missing the forest for the trees on why the average per street percentage bet sizing at PLO is generally larger than NLHE.

Amazing he's been on these forums since at least 2007.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
dude if you bet 20% on flop and 100% on turn in a 3bet pot, you're not "keeping the pot small" just because you c-bet 20%

you still end up all in by the river
That could be true, but u get a ton of folds on turn with the bigger bets. So u win more pots but they are smaller. So at 200nl u raise to $4 pf. Get 1 caller pot is $8. Flop u bet say $3 villain calls. So $14 in pot. Turn u bomb $20 u get a ton of folds so u win $14 less rake and half of the money u put in. Now say u raise to $8 of one caller u already got $16 in this pot. U cbet $12 get a call pot is $40. So this over and over and your win rate will increase.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheels2222
Jungmit isn't worth engaging. He's already demonstrated he doesn't understand math with his RNG fixing rants. He's also missing the forest for the trees on why the average per street percentage bet sizing at PLO is generally larger than NLHE.

Amazing he's been on these forums since at least 2007.
The average street in PLO is bigger because people bet more. 1. To make people pay to chase. 2 to protect hand. 3 they afraid of getting sucked out on.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 11:05 AM
Well said.
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote
Today , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmit
The average street in PLO is bigger because people bet more. 1. To make people pay to chase. 2 to protect hand. 3 they afraid of getting sucked out on.
Jungmit is still in this forum since 2007 because he's been winning more than 10bb/ 100 hands since that point
[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread Quote

      
m