Dave's JOB is to do damage control.

This to me is not a good thing. If you can't resolve issues via email and live chat, then having to come to public forums to resolve them to save face/damages is a HUGE issue.

Something not kosher with this site regardless.

Well, I've read about Pitbull for literally years, most of it bad stuff, but I also played on it occasionally. Never saw anything that made it seem rigged any more so than any other site, both before and after I got to 200 comp points.

Once I did reach 200 points, cashouts have been speedy to my eWX account. There was a promo in Feb/Mar that replaced their regular 9pm $1K guar with something much better, creating a huge overlay every night for 2 solid months.
I played in it maybe 45 times and got a 1st, a couple 2nds, and maybe a 5th, which is less than 10% itm, but the 1sts/2nds, coupled with the large overlay, more than made up for the lousy percentage, so I ended up cashing out a lot more than I invested.

For awhile, I was suspicious that I couldn't seem to do better except for those few times, since my normal itm %age is more like 18-20%, while I watched 2 players in particular money night after night after night. However, they were both excellent players, I think they were just good players that also happened to be running hot, like I've run before.

My conclusion is that it's probably not rigged, I was just unlucky that I couldn't cash more often, but that unluckiness was nothing different from other periods of unluckiness that I've experienced. Also the fact that the site did allow me to win some money tells me that all is probably as it should be.

Just my opinion.

I've waited 6 months to give Dave a chance before making my suspicions public but he has done nothing so I feel I should now write this to warn people and also to ask if anyone has had a similar experience. I'm a LHE player with 4 years experience (check my previous posts for proof) and I've never experienced before the way a group of 4 players played. I played on 10/20 and there were a couple of regular players, some good, some bad, but 4 in particular never ever called me down with a worse hand. The first 500 odd hands I found very frustrating, but then I started getting suspicious and started actively looking for a single call down with a worse hand - it never happened over 500 hands which is totally bizarre in my mind esp in LHE.

So I then withdrew my remaining money which took 3 months and in November last year I requested my HH files from Dave so that I could analyse the hands and see any if there was some sort of proof of foul play. I'm sure a stat of 0% calldown with a worse hand over 1k hands is clear evidence of wrongdoing. Dave said no problem but the hands never arrived. I reminded him every 3 weeks or so but there was always an excuse, until 3 months ago when he stopped replying to my emails. ( I have requested over email 6 times in total)

I'm very hesitant about telling this story as I would hate to wrongfully accuse a site of cheating but I feel Dave has left me no choice. Dave if you are reading this and you no your site is clean, then you have the opportunity to make me look like a fool by sending me the hands and you also have my permission to upload them and link them here so that there is no chance of tampering from my side. Just so you know, I have saved a couple hands from the website so will be able to prove if there is any evidence of tampering on your side. (you can only get 1 hand at a time from the website and i dont have the time to get 1k hands at 30 seconds/hand)

If anyone has had similar experiences please post or pm me with suspected names. I dunno if its the done thing to post screen names here, if its ok then tell me and I will name the 4 players I suspect.

+1 suspicious play on this site at LHE.

So post some proof or hands that you do have.

My mate was also playing there getting suspicious and toward the end of the last session tried to expose them. he had 93o and open raised. villain calls. board 55J. vilain cr mate, he call. turn is blank and my mate raise villain who 3 bets. river is 9 and villain now checks and mate checks too to see what he has. he has like 6 high.

This hand is possible from a good aggro opponent but this guy was insanely tight and never called down with worse.

Another time my friend raised suspect guy on every street with T high cos he was sick to death of the donking. somewhow suspect managed to donk every street despite the raises and flipped over A high on the river to win. I will get my mate to save this hand from the website later. Apart from these blatant ones it just felt like whenever u had a hand they check/fold and when u have A hi they often donk into u and when u call down it will very often be a hand they should be check calling like bottom pair. I honestly dont recall winning a sd against these 4 players and I wanted to see my HH files to check if my memory was correct but Dave is conveniently forgetting to do this... go figure. I will post these suspect hands later...

its hard to post suspicious hands on this site because they dont show the opponents hands at showdown unless you lose.i check the hh, i wasnt getting any value from my big hands like with folds on flop from them, and then getting called down with Q high etc, many hands seems like they were outplaying me when i have junk.Flash software, seems like really exploitable, also maybe inside job? This site seems really shady.

THINGS THAT I KNOW TO BE TRUE ABOUT PITBULL PLAYERS AT THE NL $5 AND NL $10 TABLES:

1) The style of pitbull players is extremely different then the style of play on any other site....limping pf, donkbetting 25-35% of the pot, and a bunch of shortstackers.

2) The % of my bluffs working was very very minimal...This is the Key point for me...Obv good poker players know that the style of continouosly donk-betting oop is a losing style, but any time i would raise the donkbets with garbage i would get min rr/ called a lot of the time...and then the villain would donkbet turn or check call on other streets with very minimal holdings(i have seen K high and Ace high showdowns on my bluffs numerous times)...THIS WAS MY RED FLAG, but 8 months ago nobody else was reporting this type of play in the forums i was posting in, so i just shook my head and proceeded to run bad...I ended up breaking even or being $2k up or down i'm sure.....but with the ammount of hands i put in(8months worth) it tilted me so much i had to quit.

let me hear your thoughts,

Brett

So, you are complaining because all the other players play badly?

Obviously, you should move to a site where they respect your raises asap.

Pitbull Poker, three days ago

Game: 5/10 Limit Holdem (4 handed)

I'm in the Small Blind, Suspected Cheater (who upon the previous 100 hands had not lost a showdown and had played two or three suspicous hands vs. me) in the BB.

Players A and B (out the blinds) fold to me. I have Qc5h. A known loose player especially in shorthand, I have to hold myself back as I want to play as many hands vs. this villian as possible to further validate his cheating, so....

I call. BB Villain Checks.

After rake, 9.50 in the pot. Board = kd 4c 3s.

I check. Villain checks as well.

Turn = 4d. (Board now shows kd, 4c, 3s, 4d)

I check. Villain checks again.

River = 5d. (board now shows kd, 4c, 3s, 4d, 5d)

I bet 10 dollars. Villian goes into the tank, approaches auto-fold from time limit. Villain calls.

I show q-5 for two pair. Villain shows Ac As for aces up. Villain collects 29.50.

I hope some of you are not disuaded by the fact that the pot size was small, but actually find the cheating MORE believable by the same very fact. I will give you my reasoning, and if anyone wants to comment or email me their thoughts, please do.

My call pre-flop showed nothing. In theory I could be holding a-x or k-x or something like connectors, small pair or complete garbage, but definetely not a monster. I had been raising with just about any hand of power in any position and I know these guys know that as well. In short handed limit holdem, I'll call with just about anything, but seldom do I ever slow play.

So knowing this and knowing he has AA, he has two moves--A) raise and try to value bet his monster or B) check and hide his hand in hopes to make more $ on later streets. In shorthanded limit holdem, B is very questionable play and I think you def. get payed off more in the long run with A, because if the SB hits ANYTHING on the flop you're liable to get at least another 2-3 small bets with your opponent check-raising any pair or if your opponent leads outs with a pair or draw that you're able to raise and probably get an additional call from.

But let's just say for instance, you're the villain and you see your opponents cards are q5 and you have AA in the BB with position. Now what do you do?

By god if you raise, the sb might actually fold!!! LOL!! And even if he calls the flop, you know you're not going to get any action on the flop unless a queen comes. IMO, your best play here is to ACTUALLY CHECK AND HOPE THE FOOL MAKES A BLUFF OR HITS A QUEEN OR A FIVE AND LEADS! In other words, I agree the villain made the right play!

Now the flop comes and theres again 9.50 in the pot after the rake. A board of kd 4c 3s. I check because i have no business in this hand whatsoever. A stiff breeze could knock me out which I would be welcome to. But the villain supposedly does not know this. I could be planning a check-raise with a king, smooth calling with a 4, 3 or 56, or again call with nothing and hoping to outplay him later (though the unlikeliest of scenarios). Basically, if I was in the situation without seeing my opponents cards, I'm still leaning towards betting and taking the chance of building a bigger pot than checking and letting $ possibly slip away. And if the board pairs and my opponent bets, I'm a passive calling station the rest of the hand, hoping to call down a couple of bluffs, i.e. weak poker. You may differ, but come on now, this is limit poker. Have you guys ever checked aces pre and post flop against a loose player?

But again, if I could see that my opponent held Q-5o and knew if I bet here my opponent would fold, the obvious choice would be to check and PRAY for a queen hit the board. Then at least I make a big bet or possibly two a raise and my play on the previous streets would be rewarded. I again agree with his play, assuming he knows my cards.

The fourth street is the most telling of all, and in no way shape or form can ANYONE tell me otherwise that he makes the right play under normal circumstances. The turn comes the 4d, which not only pairs the board but also puts two diamonds out there for a possible flush draw.

After I check, a normal, unknowing player IMO must bet whether he/she likes it or not. Whether it's to guard against the draw, make money against the low % draw, hope for a bluff raise, hope for a call with something like a pair of 5's or 6's or just anything; the pot is STILL AT ITS MINIMUM HERE AND YOU HAVE ACES, ONE OF WHICH IS NOT A DIAMOND! WTF could anyone be doing checking for the 3rd time in LH vs. a heads up opponent?

Well, to answer my own question, the same reason you would check pre-flop and the flop: because you know your opponents hand and knew he/she would fold and that you'd gain absolutely $0 for your sneaky efferts. Best to pray one more time in hopes that queen hits or...

River = 5d.

Oh wow, this is like christmas in July for detecting fraud. I now have two pair and my opponent has checked on every street. I have to assume he has nothing, and that if the 5 hit him he would have a lower kicker. Maybe he has ace hi and will call to keep my loose ass honest. I def. don't put him on a diamond draw or a straight, thinking he would have stabbed earlier to take the pot down or create pot odds with those draws. So I make a logical bet and hope he calls with nothing or folds and I win the pot witout having to reveal my cards, which I view as a plus. So I bet and wait.

And wait I did! It takes this player almost his entire clock to make a decision. Why?

Well 1st he's not folding, as he at least has top two pair. So now it's between calling and raising. There's 3 diamonds on board, a possible straight on the board and a paired junk card (4) that a sb could possibly play. But again, let me reitterate that he checked on every street, ignoring every draw in the book that i might have held. It didn't scare him then, so IMO it shouldn't scare him now.

The correct play to make money here playing the way he played to this point is raise. Plain and simple. Whether he has to call a reraise from me or not, he has made his bed and must sleep in it. And in my opinion again, I believe with the time it takes him to decide, the villain here wants to raise, but cant. This is the most hilaroius part of cheating in poker--it's hard to do right!

What our villian actually did in this hand was put himself in a hole. A raise here looks VERY SUSPICIOUS (since he did even bet it on any street) and most importantly it's liable TO GET CALLED!!! In other words, yeah you're gonna make more money but you're going to sacrifice something called 'credibility' in the process for a measily 10 bucks. The villian has done all he could to get action from his/her opponent by repeatedly checking but now must play the river NORMAL to seem legit!

Here's the only play I question from this player I severely suspect of seeing cards: he should have folded. No one would have ever known, I wouldnt have written this longass post and I surely wouldn't have (attempted) to cashout of pitbullpoker. I had had my doubts for awhile but after this measily 30 dollar hand I am done with the site. And as soon as my cashout is received (hoping by August), I will name this player out for everyone else to enjoy.

I hope I at least I convinced some of you on this. FYI: I have been the victim of automated software before and have an email from a VERY reputable online poker site stating this for a fact, and I was compensated for about 1/100th of my losses, which means i lost about 19k to either cheats or cheats who did not get caught or both.

I hope you naysayers will at least be more careful and study your hands against those you feel are suspicious. Thanks.

Damnit, I'm gonna come play at pitbull if the standard of the play there maintains the same standard as the replies here.

Wow, 90% of the people in this thread are retarded or have some kind of personality defect. I feel like promoting the site just out of pity for the guy who has to shovel through this ****.

I have just read this whole thread.

Whether right / wrong / full of **** i think Dave has has handled himself well throught the entire thread where applicable.

That said there is no way in **** I will ever be depositing money on this site and unfortunately for Dave and Pitbull Poker I think that will be the common consensous (probably spelt wrong) around here

Hi everyone,

There are times when I read this thread and I really wonder if the people are complaining with the certainty of what the are trying to say, or simply are fanatics of complaining. Winston Churchill used to say that a fanatic was someone that not only won't change his mind but won't change the subject.

I appreciate any token of understanding and support some members have shown to me, because that tells me that there is people who can discern the reality behind numerous delusional threads.

I don't ignore the posts made on 2+2 anywhere, but I established a while ago that I would pursue those complaints, requests or comments that were real, made sense and had a purpose. I won't give a follow up to each and every "chicken little" comment because it is simply not worth trying.

Everyone is invited to reach me via PM or email (dave @ pitbullgaming.com) with any question or request. I am here to help, please keep that in mind.

Thank you.

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners

Dave all we ask is 1000 hands HH, and it will silence all the fanatics.