Hi all

We are aware of this issue and as stated on the other thread I am not best placed comment on these situations
I have been assured the relevant team are aware and have been in touch with the OP
Further to this I can only confirm the decision taken was reviewed thoroughly.

Kind regards,

Colette

No doubt the situation is likely more complex than the OP has stated (even though I do not think he is holding any information back knowingly), however the current solution really makes little sense without some justification.

If the guy chip dumped then he should lose everything. If he won the money in a fair manner then he should get to keep everything. I suppose Party Poker can close an account for any reason, whether fair or not, so that part of the decision is hard to dispute (as to whether it is allowed).

Honestly, this looks pretty bad for Party Poker as is, because the final decision is a "compromise" when a binary situation seems to exist - either you can prove he chip dumped/cheated or you cannot.

I ignore those that suggest this is a way for Party to save $9,000. However, there does need to be some further explanation on Party Poker's part to make this situation make some sense. Do I think this will impact Party Poker in a massive way? Nah, but it certainly does not help its reputation, which has never been pristine (in terms of consistency of how they handle situations).

You may not be in a position to do anything yourself, and the OP still needs to take some sedatives to better handle this situation, but what you can do is find the appropriate person/people to explain themselves ( or through you), how they can choose this weird middle position of letting him keep some, though not all of the money, while also closing his account.

You chose to post in this thread, so now you are involved, so let's see if you can actually do anything than post a "Rhetoric for Dummies" style reply.

Well said Monteroy. This is despicable of PartyPoker to do this. How they have survived in the online poker market for over a decade is beyond me when consistently making decisions like this.

I just want op and party to know i am reading this thread and will if this not get's resolved the right way i make sure i wont play there anymore and let all my friends, who play casino games there know whats up.

from memory of previous cases (i could be off), it seems the sites will often reverse the fraudulent funds instead of letting the innocent party keep everything. otherwise it becomes a freeroll in favor of the player with the site eating the cost. so letting the innocent party keep the fraudulent part of the funds is the exception rather than the rule. is it the sites fault/responsibility for letting the fraudulent funds enter the system? yes ofc, but they dont look at it that way (thats a discussion for another day)

agreed, this is the strange part where they let him keep his funds but still close the account

If they have a written policy about this situation (ie: player going against another using fraud based funds without knowledge) then that will certainly help.

AS well, unless Party also gives back funds to players who lose to fraud (ie: dude hacks an account or uses stolen funds, wins by chance and then transfers/cashes out/loses to another player legit) then it is not really a freeroll.

Perhaps Party can at least make it clear what their policies are in this regard as that is a separate issue from the LOLweird choice of giving this OP some of his funds and then closing his account.

I think it was resolved and the final decision made and op as a long time customer got screwed royally. If it is still pending I apologize, looked like partys decision to let op make partial withdrawl was a final one. Shame on Party Poker.

Shame on you Party.
Do not punish your serious players, it will only backfire and this thread will never go away.

Colette - all the evidence in this case seems to be circumstantial. In such a case, is it not advisable to present that evidence to me in case there is an explanation? As far as I can tell, there can only be 3 circumstantial pieces of evidence:

1. My low volume (adressed and debunked by me in this thread)

2. Me cashing out a large sum the day I won (I cant remember if I requested the sum I won, but since that would refelct a near doubling of my bankroll for the highest stakes your site offers, that must be deemed a pretty standard action following my largest win of the year)

3. The other players location.

So fram my vantage point, number 3 can be the only piece of circumstantial evidence you actually have, if you even have that. Surely that on its own cannot be enough? How thorough can this review actually be?

I will be very happy for them to present anything they have in this thread.



Monteroy, as I stated above (please le me know if I have missed something), the only pieces of circumstantial evidence that can possibly exist are;

1. My low volume (adressed and debunked by me in this thread)

2. Me cashing out a large sum the day I won (In my opinion very natural)

3. The other players location (No idea - can this one point on its own be evidence enough if this is indeed the full extent of their evidence?)

I do not see how the situation can be more complex than this? I thought so as well initially but after some thought, logically and my method of deduction no other circumstantial evidence can even exist I believe - in essence it is hard for me to see how Partys case could be very strong regardless of the circumstances.

i'm sure it would be interesting to see an online poker room posting details. But besides it's unprofessional i guess - depending on the case - it can always make bigger problems. i'm 100% sure companies know, what hurts their reputation and i don't think a company like PP takes some decisions light-hearted

it's super painful for OP even if it seems the 'case is closed' i hope, he will get some more details

How much did you try to cash out that day? (Within a hundred or two dollars.)

i checked with PTR and there's absolutely no indication that OP has done random chipdumps every 4-5 months. Pretty much all his volume is vs people with a large amount of hands.

Just dropping in to show my support for you OP. PartyPoker should be ashamed of themselves over this scummy decision.

Did the guy who allegedly dumped the chips give them a dirty credit card? Just wondering.

Youy are correct, according to them the matter is resolved.

Thank you for the support.

I honestly cant remember. As mentioned, you can sit one stake at that limit and since I am playing 2 k hands a year on the site there is no reason to keep more than a few (4-5) buyins on for security / safety reasons. Add to that the fact that this win is my biggest of the year and instantly nearly doubled my bankroll on the site. Party is welcome to release details if this was a critical piece of evidence in their investigation.

Thank you.

And thank you as well.

Party has not released this information but all signs point to this.

How about within a thousand or so, then? You could ask them if you can't remember that. They are not going to post it here.

Have you ever withdrawn before?

its been a while since i played at party, but dont they give a cashout confirmation email

Of course, I have been a reg there since about 3 years, have withdrawn maybe at least 10 times in the last 12 months. Since 2014 - 09 - 28 I am up 35 k on that site so obviously all of that minus Jorgen was withdrawn at 4 -5 k per time.

EDIT: I withdrew 7500 of 9400 won. So see post below.

SMART DUDE!!!!

Found this:

Hi Ali,

Please keep this withdrawal receipt for your records.

Current Status of Request: PENDING APPROVAL.
Withdrawal Amount : USD 7,500.00.
Withdrawal method: BANKTRANSFER.
Account Name : xxxxx
Date/Time Transaction : 28-JUN-2015 00:09:17 EST.
Transaction ID : 14354645569950454.

As per our Withdrawal Procedure all withdrawal requests must first be approved by our internal review team (to ensure fairness) before they are processed by our Payments Team. This is why the current status of your request reads pending approval.

This review normally takes up to 3 Business Days To view your withdrawal status, please select the Transaction History link from the Cashier.

For more information, please visit the Cashier FAQ section or Contact Us at any tim

EDIT:

OK so 7500 withdrawn of 9400 won. Literally the only piece of circumstantial evidence left is other players location!

Big HU win + big cashout request => Investigation. (When someone doubles his bankroll in 1 session and then insta-cashes out, it's bound to throw up a red flag).
When we factor in that the opponent was an unknown/newbie that may have been using a dodgy deposit method, it seems you were caught in a perfect storm. To an untrained eye, it would look very much like a chipdump for money laundering purposes.
One would hope that Party didn't employ untrained eyes, and that the staff can tell the difference between an "obvious chipdump" and a legitimate win, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

If they refuse to provide reasons for their refusal to pay out your winnings, this is just plain theft. This thread is not going to go away. A few customers might though. Wake the **** up, Party Poker! Pay the man his money, or your customers will stop paying your wages.

I almost want to make a deposit just so I can cash out in protest!

it's been 5 days now since the update. are you still exchanging emails with party? have you contacted the gambling commission?

Ok, so I have sent all my emails and details to one of the intial posters in this thread that asked me to skype him. He is helping me continume my communication with Party, and I will be working on drafting something to the appropriate regulator if that fails as well.

What is their overwhelming circumstantial evidence?

This is a lot of money, and you should be able to know more info imo

Another thing to think about...

If OP was indeed chip dumping, I feel he would snap call getting his initial bankroll back rather than deal with all of the things he is going to have to in order to keep fighting..

Just saying..

GL OP!

An update:

With the help of reputable (I believe) poster Pmarrsouth from earlier in this thread this email has been sent to PartyPoker. I am hoping they will take the time to do the right thing. I will update this thread with the follow-up:

Hello Party,

Firstly thanks for releasing just over $12K of my account balance, albeit with strange reasoning. Releasing these funds and keeping my account banned is the 3rd best outcome for me, I believe. It is behind “open with fully reinstated balance” and “closed with fully available balance for withdraw”. However, it seems to be one of the worst outcomes for Party poker, as it shows that either players can freeroll you (do fraud on your site and get previous balance when banned) or that you are freerolling players (if player wins then party might take the funds and ban account). Your outcome has caused alarm to both me and also my peers in the thread on 2+2 about it: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...er-25k-1546531

You have shown me no evidence to suggest that I have been complicit in chip dumping. You are seizing over 9,000 EUR from me while providing me nothing but statements like “the circumstantial evidence we have in this situation is overwhelming”. I am a HU pro and play across many sites (Will Hill, Party, FTP, Stars, svenskaspel, & PKR). I can show you my Pokertracker records from those sites too. Unfortunately there is not enough HU play on most sites nowadays to support my income, so I spread out the action. I regularly sit on 20 tables across the 6 sites waiting for action. I hope that you can see from your reports that I am indeed sitting for many hours per day on Party, hoping that someone will sit against me. In the 2+2 thread, in posts 7 & 36, I actually breakdown how many hands most of the regs play on average (numbers are of course not exact as taken from PTR, but it shows a good visualization of the limited hands in higher stakes HU on Party)

I completely understand that mistakes happen, we are human after all. It may have initially looked like a fraudulent chip dump to my account, but I would have hoped that after a full investigation that it would show that I was just lucky (or clearly unlucky now) to be this villain’s opponent. There are many threads on 2+2 showing that a site initially thought there was something fraudulent going on, but then later completely reversed their decision once they completed their full investigation after realizing their mistake:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...olved-1493589/

I implore you to please have someone with good experience in such cases to review my situation. I really hope that someone from senior management in operations/fraud is able to read this email and pass it on to the relevant person(s). I really want to get back to playing on Party, with a fully restored account balance, but I cannot let your site mistakenly steal nearly $10K USD from me. You firstly banned my account and seized all funds. You then revisited the case and kept me banned but with my initial balance of $12K available for withdrawal. I hope that you will now look at it again and correctly determine that I was not complicit in the fraud and restore my account & full balance.

I understand that it will take a few days to look into this again.

Thanks,

Ali

While keeping in mind that we're all just strangers on the Internet, I'd put Pmarr way up there in a list of most reputable posters on 2+2.