Australians Inc.... I predict wpn will be #1 site in a year or 2 unless they close or unregulated countries speed up their process

I think it isn't worth it, though possible.


We are ready, it's just our current clients requested reports for NLHE. As soon we have somebody interested, we can start providing reports for PLO as well.

Wouldn't it be nice if every site enforces this kind of checking before a cash out is accepted?

As detecting bots after cash outs doesn't work. They just open a new account and run the bot as long as they can. And then repeat. But if it's done before cashouts, it would actually stop them.

And then I woke up. Not going to happen unless internet poker is actually going to die.

this has been needed for a long time now, good to see this development

Hi guys, thanks for support.

As mentioned earlier we are ready to check players that are reasonably suspicious for reputable 2+2ers, please PM with the following information:
- Poker Room / Game (NL, PLO etc)
- Number of hands for each suspected account
- Basic reason for suspicion (to confirm you are not throwing accusations to random players)

For cases that seems reasonable we will run the analysis and later post anonymized results here for discussion

Let me reiterate that this offer is only open for reputable 2+2ers who have valid concerns about a player with sufficient hand history sample and arguments to support the claim. No data will be posted in this thread

+1,

just posting to support.

great initiative, guys!

i will support you, if i can.
even tho, im not quite up to date on current msnl bots, i do know quite a bit about the ones taht showed up some years ago at party, ipoker and ongame 5/10nl

Hi,

Thanks for support!
We definitely interested in any relevant information, PM sent.

Huh??

Hi ilikegreen,

As said before, this plan seems really ambitious short term, however this is something we can estimate at later stage.

Check Oborra at stars plz.

Wpn already emailed me back saying they will not refund players even though I have hand history with banned bots and can prove losses to them. all they do is ban the bots. Which really is just a detour for the bots as they will just reopen different accounts.

Not to mention a minor detail which may or may not make this an impossible endeavor or at very least an uphill battle is the fact that in many cases in the past employees of the company have been behind the ring. So trying to go to these companies and complaining isn't going to accomplish anything.

In the us they need to legalize it, tax it (via the same deposit fees we already pay) and then an independent auditor has to come in and give an unbiased report with no conflict of interest.

Obviously none of this will ever happen... this is so bad for the poker economy as it acts as a leak in the overall player pool funds.

If the sites are behind the rings it's such a short sided business strategy. If they were more reputable they could get more players and generate even more rake. But when has it been in mans nature not to be greedy and self serving?!

Be careful with all sites especially ACR... even ultimate bet the biggest cheaters gave me a refund for $1000+ about 8-10 years ago. Ub was a notorious cheating site and actually had the fore site to replenish players who had been affected. So if wpn won't do the same then we can assume they are worse than UB/absolute..

Oh and to bring this full circle... khanawake is where both wpn and ub transact out of so be careful.

PM sent.

I think you have some valid points, however, I'm not sure that you can actually compare UB/Absolute with WPN this way. Anyway, I'm not going to discuss their refunding policy in this thread.

Hi,

Good job guys. I hope that you will make some serious impact on online poker.

In the first graph I can see that you are comparing statistics of different bots and they look very similar. How do you compare player stats? E.g. the difference in VPIP stats, difference in PFR stat and so on and then plot of distances between stats in the graph, or something more advanced? On the second graph you show behavior for different bots. What do you mean exactly by behavior and how do you measure it / compare it? You didn't label the axes on that graph, there is also no explanation, so maybe you can explain it? Otherwise I don't see a point in posting those. Also I don't see why you only use black color in behavior graph, instead of using one color for each player? Plot 2 for Behavior looks more understandable, I see that bots have similar behaviour but still you haven't labeled the axes, so no idea what is it doing.
I am also curious, what is the time to act plot showing? horizontal axe is labelled but vertical shows only %, I am not sure what do you mean by that.
Overall distribution for legits looks quite interesting, I guess what it is but again not explained, axes are not labelled.
I think that if you present this graphs to the casinos and expect them to buy it, I think that you should make sure that they understand what you are doing. Your work looks like it is doing a good job.
Good luck with your company and project. By the way is your company doing something else than detecting bots? Because detecting bots using approaches what you are doing doesn't look to me as a long term project especially not for many developers. By the way, do you maybe have open job positions in your company? I might be interested.

I can't find anything about Safe Poker on google when I search. How can we know that you are real? Do you have a website?

SafePoker_Rep
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: safepoker.io
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How do you differentiate between a bot and a disciplined player? Or identify a bot that includes randomness* in their decision-making process?


*or some other factor that you are unable to track/identify

Hello yesyesnono,

Thank you for detailed feedback and appreciate you think we are doing good job. First, materials that we provide to our B2B customers are more detailed and better explained. We intentionally omitted some information, the reasons are similar to what poker operators usually reply when asked about how they detect bots etc. We don't want botters to improve their anti-detection. We might be able provide more details via PM, however information provided to a stranger will be limited, see reasons above.

We are thinking to add new services, however, now we focus on bot detection exclusively. As for open positions, please PM with some relevant info about yourself and we will get back to you soon.

Thanks, Bobo!

Hello Josem, good question.

I would start with the fact that we are focused on bot rings, which play using similar strategy, no matter if they are fully or semi automated. This means such accounts have close to identical patterns that can be identified. We don't have released solution for detection of unique bots, however, we are working on this and soon should add it as well.

We believe that even players that study same materials and discuss their play together won't have stats of similarity we consider close enough to believe that they are bots / using software advisors. We will be happy to explain this further privately as your opinion will be really interesting taking into account your experience.

Thanks OP, you are doing god's work. I implore you not to answer too many questions here about your methodology. I can guarantee you dozens of botters will be reading this thread looking for ways around being caught by you.

^This
Please, please keep to yourself how you operate since every bit of information could and will make your work much more difficult in the future
Much love

On the other hand, announcing you are hunting down bots and posting results about found and banned bots will discourage people from starting their own bot business

the small bits of the analysis you showed us look strong and i have no doubt your detection methods are solid

but it is ignorant to think these billion $ companies (and i am assuming your intended consumer) aren't aware of what is going on and able to detect it

bots are close to the perfect customer, often small winrates + high rakers, play long hours + keep games running, don't require much customer service etc

if you bring to light obvious botrings, sites will be forced to take action for pr reasons but it still wont mean business for you
the only way i can see this working financially is if pokersites were forced to use 3rd party bot detection companies to protect game integrity but that seems unlikely to happen anytime soon

Even if that were true, there are licensing reasons why sites have to be able to catch bots.

I don't agree with the premise though. The PR cost is a very real one, and it definitely hurts sites, particularly smaller ones, if too many people think the games are unfair.

Not too sure the poker sites are too happy about this. Bots is a part of the industry.

There are a few players, that never say anything, play tons of hours and always play the same and only stake, is that worthy enough of suspicion and they are all foreign players on Carbon poker? These guys are generally big winners too, in terms of bb/100.