Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Internet Poker Discussions of Internet poker venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2015, 11:14 AM   #1
PokerStars Dylan
journeyman
 
PokerStars Dylan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 325
PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Today, we have begun inviting players in the United Kingdom to opt-in to a one month closed-beta testing period beginning September 1st of a new VIP Reward mechanism called VIP Steps. On October 1st, the VIP Steps system will go live for all of the UK and on January 1st, we expect the VIP Steps reward mechanism to be rolled out globally which will replace the current method FPPs are earned.

VIP Steps are a new way of earning FPPs by completing a Progress Bar that will be displayed on the table and in the lobby. This progress bar will show players how close they are to completing their next VIP Step and how many FPPs they receive each time that they complete a VIP Step. Instead of linearly earning FPPs in the background, FPPs will be released upon completion of the progress bar at the table. One of the primary purposes of Steps is to surface VIP Rewards to players so that there is a more intuitive relationship between playing and earning FPPs. The visualization is a key component to this. We expect this to be a more engaging method for players to earn and understand their rewards. The Steps are designed so that most players can complete a Step in a typical session or two and will thus have something to play for in any given session.

VIP Steps will also help players track their progression towards maintaining and increasing their status in the VIP Club by showing how many Steps are needed to either maintain or progress to the next tier. The Steps progress bar will also display notifications when approaching a new VIP Status, and alerts when risking loss of VIP status due to the end of the month approaching. Players will be able to customize whether you want to see these notifications or not. At the end of the month for monthly statuses, and end of the year for Supernova+ VIP statuses, players will receive 50% of the prorated value of their incomplete current Step.

The 50% prorated value for an incomplete Step was not designed as a means to reduce rewards, but rather to improve player engagement with VIP Rewards and incentivize players to complete their Step at the end of the month. The values of the Steps are configured with the understanding that not every player will complete their last Step and earn its full reward. Given our commitment to keep 2015 VIP Club Rewards unchanged, for the 2015 United Kingdom implementation players will receive the full 100% value, and will thus earn either the same amount of FPPs, or more, than in the current UK VIP Club. VPPs requirements for monthly and annual statuses are not affected by VIP Steps for the UK implementation.

There will be some bugs and issues with the VIP Steps progress bar that launches in beta form on September 1st. We will be striving to fix these as fast as possible, and we also have future plans to add more exciting features to the progress bar which we expect will improve player awareness of their rewards, especially among casual players. If you’re outside the UK and curious, below is a screenshot tutorial of the expanded view dropdown of the progress bar.



We have set up a dedicated inbox to address any questions or issues with Steps, so you are welcome to contact us: vipsteps@pokerstars.com. You can also read more about VIP Steps on the UK webpage: www.pokerstars.uk/vip/steps. We will be monitoring 2+2 for feedback, however, our main method of communicating updates and improvements during the beta period will be in a post on the PokerStarsBlog which will be updated regularly. We will update this TwoPlusTwo post with a link to the blog when it is up and running.

Finally, we understand that players are eager to hear what changes may be coming for 2016. We continue to evaluate and expect to be able to announce changes in October.

Dylan
PokerStars VIP Team
PokerStars Dylan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 11:23 AM   #2
tokeweed
veteran
 
tokeweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,927
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

How will the FPP pros be affected?
tokeweed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 11:52 AM   #3
TheDefiniteArticle
Indecisive
 
TheDefiniteArticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Polarizing my folding range
Posts: 13,419
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Am I reading this correctly? For the rest of 2015, UK players are guaranteed to earn at least as much rakeback by opting in, and everyone is shifted over at the start of 2016 anyway?
TheDefiniteArticle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:21 PM   #4
davidv1213
Vampy
 
davidv1213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posts: 3,466
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Dylan View Post
The 50% prorated value for an incomplete Step was not designed as a means to reduce rewards
I don't believe you.

Another money grab, shocking.
davidv1213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:26 PM   #5
The Imp
adept
 
The Imp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,013
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

The money grab is likely to be when they change the value of the steps system on 1st Jan.
The Imp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:30 PM   #6
PokerStars Dylan
journeyman
 
PokerStars Dylan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 325
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle View Post
Am I reading this correctly? For the rest of 2015, UK players are guaranteed to earn at least as much rakeback by opting in, and everyone is shifted over at the start of 2016 anyway?
This year, all UK players will receive the same or more FPPs than under the current system. For 2015 only, each Step gives you the same FPP multiplier as you currently earn. Additionally, each 5th Step is designed to give you 10% additional rewards.

Regards,
Dylan
PokerStars Dylan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:33 PM   #7
Sooo Tilted
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 49
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Let me get this straight. This change is to basically force everyone to keep playing until their FPPs are released based on x amount VPPs required to earn for each step. As we go further down the steps we are required to earn much more VPPs/Step in order get our FPPs released.

For example, I completed SN and want to light grind for remainder of the year and cash in on 1.6k bonuses. Stars won't let me do this on the new system because I have to probably hit a large VPP miletone until my next set of fpps are released. If the milestone is not hit my FPPs would then be cut in half and be released on the new calender year

Last edited by Sooo Tilted; 08-27-2015 at 12:42 PM.
Sooo Tilted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:47 PM   #8
U shove i call
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,936
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

So from 2016 your going to steal half my fpps if im lazy and don't play enough to meet a level you have set??

Ye defo not a money grab.
U shove i call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 01:06 PM   #9
Xinbama
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 306
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Driving people away more when the on-line community is struggling, doesn't seem like a smart idea.
Xinbama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 01:56 PM   #10
Mig
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flopping like a sucker
Posts: 2,893
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Looks like yet an other money grab by pokerstars... Good lord...
Mig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 01:56 PM   #11
caquitows
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 85
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Dylan View Post
The 50% prorated value for an incomplete Step was not designed as a means to reduce rewards, but rather to improve player engagement with VIP Rewards and incentivize players to complete their Step at the end of the month.
50% prorated value WAS designed as means to reduce rewards in an attempt to players deposit more often to complete their Step at the end of the month.

If it would be just to improve player engagement, you would just make the aesthetics improvement and adding the Steps.

This type of movement only means that the declining traffic of players is impacting in Pokerstars revenue for sure. Obviously.

Don't make us fools. We aren't and you know that. Just make things clear.
caquitows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 01:58 PM   #12
dd777
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 26
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

What is maximum rewards one can get? Is it 40%?
If i complete only 19/20 steps in a month do i get 50% fpp reduce? Or is it somehow proportional?
Is it always 20 steps? why 20?

thanks
dd777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 02:00 PM   #13
Richas
veteran
 
Richas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the learning curve
Posts: 3,361
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Hmm, the Licence Condition and Code of Practice on rewards is one of the worst written, least comprehensible rules the UKGC has, which is an achievement. I have bolded a bit in the below

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...f-practice.pdf

Quote:
Social responsibility code provision 5.1.1
Rewards and bonuses – SR code
All licences (including ancillary remote licences), except gaming machine technical and
gambling software licences
1 If a licensee makes available to any customer or potential customer any incentive or reward scheme or other arrangement under which the customer may receive money, goods, services or any other advantage (including the discharge in whole or in part of any liability of his) (‘the benefit’) the scheme must be designed to operate, and be operated, in such a way that:
a the circumstances in which, and conditions subject to which, the benefit is available
are clearly set out and readily accessible to the customers to whom it is offered;
b neither the receipt nor the value or amount of the benefit is:
i dependent on the customer gambling for a pre-determined length of time or with
a pre-determined frequency; or
ii altered or increased if the qualifying activity or spend is reached within a shorter
time than the whole period over which the benefit is offered
.
c if the value of the benefit increases with the amount the customer spends it does so at
a rate no greater than that at which the amount spent increases; and further that:
d if the benefit comprises free or subsidised travel or accommodation which facilitates
the customer’s attendance at particular licensed premises the terms on which it is
offered are not directly related to the level of the customer’s prospective gambling.
The bold bit is very unclear, at least one reading of it is problematic even for the existing VIP scheme - I'm not sure but I suspect the whole "visualisation" thing could cause concerns about chasing behaviour, likewise the potential loss of a significant "step" leading to pressure to redeposit (or just bring more to the table) might cause concerns for someone at the Commission or maybe a malicious competitor or anti gambling group could raise it with the commission.

In past consultations I have said to the UKGC that poker schemes are different to most such schemes as they are primarily aiming at professional and semi professional players rather than heavy losers, so greater flexibility is needed to let them work properly, that concerns re loss chasing and or escalating stakes to achieve rewards is less of a concern with poker.

I'm not sure that these changes help with such an argument that these poker rewards are incidental and do not encourage chasing behaviour or create artificial deadlines risking escalating gambling behaviours. You know the sort of stuff these unclear rules are supposed to address.
Richas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 02:02 PM   #14
Mike Haven
Moderotor of Moderots
 
Mike Haven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Self-flagellating re poor modding
Posts: 12,816
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Please see some additional discussion in closed thread at http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anism-1556222/

(Unfortunately, the posts can't be merged into this later-started thread. You are welcome to repost your comments into this thread)
Mike Haven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 02:36 PM   #15
caquitows
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 85
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richas View Post
Hmm, the Licence Condition and Code of Practice on rewards is one of the worst written, least comprehensible rules the UKGC has, which is an achievement. I have bolded a bit in the below

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...f-practice.pdf



The bold bit is very unclear, at least one reading of it is problematic even for the existing VIP scheme - I'm not sure but I suspect the whole "visualisation" thing could cause concerns about chasing behaviour, likewise the potential loss of a significant "step" leading to pressure to redeposit (or just bring more to the table) might cause concerns for someone at the Commission or maybe a malicious competitor or anti gambling group could raise it with the commission.

In past consultations I have said to the UKGC that poker schemes are different to most such schemes as they are primarily aiming at professional and semi professional players rather than heavy losers, so greater flexibility is needed to let them work properly, that concerns re loss chasing and or escalating stakes to achieve rewards is less of a concern with poker.

I'm not sure that these changes help with such an argument that these poker rewards are incidental and do not encourage chasing behaviour or create artificial deadlines risking escalating gambling behaviours. You know the sort of stuff these unclear rules are supposed to address.
As for my understanding, FPPs and VPPs are not the Reward or Bonus as they are. But how to reach them. So, PS can change how the mechanism works to reach them.

The security tokens could fall into that (that they are different FPP prices in different stages).
caquitows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 03:06 PM   #16
KeithMM
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 789
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test



you cut the rewards to uk players so that we could pay half of your tax bill. I voted with my feet. Will this innovative change have me rushing back ?dream on ....might get the 9vpps to get my stellar but will stay off stars tables otherwise and play on my current sites where players are appreciated and not a cash cow to be raped and pillaged and then shafted for good measure.
KeithMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:04 PM   #17
Aces123123
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 584
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

There is no upside to these changes for the players. No I don't find it engaging if I lose fpps just because I didn't play a certain amount. With the Full Tilt changes, there at least was an upside in that you can win a jackpot, enter some flips and so on.

I usually hit silverstar each month and I am never even close to goldstar. What would be the incentive for me to play more? (Besides poker being fun, but I can play poker on other sites) I feel like PokerStars don't give a toss about players who are not super nova or super nova elite.
Aces123123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:27 PM   #18
He I Se N Be Rg
enthusiast
 
He I Se N Be Rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 50
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Another money grab. I no longer associate the PokerStars brand with generosity or loyalty. Bravo.

Recreationals read this. Regs bashing you every time you post tarnishes your image. The sentiment towards your company ripples everywhere.
He I Se N Be Rg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:27 PM   #19
DirkkDiggler
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 427
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces123123 View Post
There is no upside to these changes for the players. No I don't find it engaging if I lose fpps just because I didn't play a certain amount. With the Full Tilt changes, there at least was an upside in that you can win a jackpot, enter some flips and so on.

I usually hit silverstar each month and I am never even close to goldstar. What would be the incentive for me to play more? (Besides poker being fun, but I can play poker on other sites) I feel like PokerStars don't give a toss about players who are not super nova or super nova elite.
for silver, they give you 15fpp more than normally every 5 steps.

you will lose fpp only on the current step you didnt achieve. just play it safety. you have a 100vpp step to achieve and only 2hours before the end of the month ? dont play that step then, stars will lose rake. anyway... how much fpp you will loose ? 25fpp ? about 38 cents...
DirkkDiggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:31 PM   #20
Foldnowpls
centurion
 
Foldnowpls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 150
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

This system just looks horrible for both sides even stars anyone with common sense just quits playing for the month once they meet their target and then stars misses out on any more rake
Foldnowpls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:38 PM   #21
Ninja1337
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 10
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

So.. how many steps are there for a supernova? And is their VPP's massive? Or is the steps equal size no matter what level you are at?

If they are not I can imagine the nightmare if you are a highlevel and don't earn your VPPs straight away..
Ninja1337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:41 PM   #22
kobmish
old hand
 
kobmish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winrate minimizing
Posts: 1,641
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja1337 View Post
So.. how many steps are there for a supernova? And is their VPP's massive? Or is the steps equal size no matter what level you are at?

If they are not I can imagine the nightmare if you are a highlevel and don't earn your VPPs straight away..
Looks like for supernova the steps are 5k chunks. Which is ok, considering they should be yearly.
kobmish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:45 PM   #23
DirkkDiggler
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 427
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

one thing i want to know is when they will give me my fpp ? at the end of every completed step ?

and they said ''Although the system only rewards 50% of incomplete Steps''
why they put the word step in plurial ? its obvious that if you dont complete a step, you dont complete all the other next steps. so if im silver, i complete 4 steps for 600 fpp. do they take back 50% cuz i didnt complete the other 21 steps ?

and why in the OP picture its wrote 20 steps when in this table theres 25 steps ? http://www.pokerstars.uk/assets/pdf/...n-us/table.pdf
DirkkDiggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:59 PM   #24
ItsOnlyChips
veteran
 
ItsOnlyChips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada @Its0nlyChips
Posts: 2,200
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

its pretty clear from the wording that the 50% applies to individual steps and not the entire level

after each step they show # of FPPs unlocked
ItsOnlyChips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 05:40 PM   #25
grogheadflow7
old hand
 
grogheadflow7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hull, England
Posts: 1,259
Re: PokerStars - VIP Steps United Kingdom Beta Test

I don't want to be just like insta 'you're lying it's a money grab'. But if that were not the case, you could easily guarantee to make the scheme revenue neutral.

So for example, do some modelling on the amount you save by people not completing steps, and distributing that $ to the rest of the reward system.

That you have not done this shows a lot of contempt for the intelligence of people reading this.

It's like you try to apply basic University level PR- designed for an dimwitted population programmed to swallow everything- to the readers of this forum, who are for the most part educated and savvy enough to see through everything you are saying.

That said, you can just do what you like, so just go right ahead and stop making me cringe with these posts.
grogheadflow7 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online