If they run in large numbers, I don't think SSers will have too much to complain about. It's just a pretty big 'if'.

Nobody knows how changes will affect the games, I'm sure there will be positive and negative impacts for pretty much all players.

Thank God for this thread, btw. I made a solemn oath to myself I'd avoid the other one, now I can actually keep that promise!

By this logic all tables should be limit.

I'm not saying they'd move down and pwn, I'm saying a lot of bad players would LEAVE the limits you want to play.

Stars' games seem to be alive and well with players, over 1.5x as many cash players as FTP as of today. For the 20bb stack to be "killing the game, end of discussion," the games on Stars sure look alive to me.

Again and again, I can say the same thing back to you with "go play the 50bb+ games." Perhaps there should be smallstack games, deepstack games, AND players' choice buyin games.

I play lots of turns and rivers, and it's not "obvious" how the game is "supposed" to be played. You like raising 64s and I don't. Don't act like that makes you morally superior.

Sounds perfect. Poker Stars can create deep tables for those that want to play deep, shallow tables for those wanting to play 20bb stacks. Then raise the buyin on regular no limit for those that just want to play no limit holdem, neither shallow or deep.

Also glad for the update. Praying for 35bb min.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I don't think most shorties are flipping their **** over this. I think they're just advocating for what they would prefer, nothing wrong with that...

If these changes do happen, some shorties WILL adjust (either by learning to play with a larger buy-in, or learning to beat the shallow games -- I think for most people that will depend on game selection concerns). Other shorties will go broke/quit. The question of how many will be in the latter category might be why this is a tough decision for Stars. Just guessing tho.

FYP

+1 to all of this. I think it's the self-righteousness of anti-SSers that sucks me into these threads more than anything else.

I'm not sure which thread it's in, probably the one where FTP officially announced 35bb mins, but there was a link to a SSS forum where everyone was going nuts and saying hilarious things like "I guess I'll move down in limits and buy in for 100 bbs and crush".

Fairness???? You are playing a game that online poker sites could have never foreseen. You want to talk about fair? There has never been a solution to shortstacking/ratholing since most people would have never foreseen how things would have ended up.

There are shortstackers in MSNL games that have no clue why they have an edge; it's actually pretty funny. Shortstacking is so easy that you don't even have to know what you are doing to breakeven and make good money on rakeback. It's pathetic.

Go get a job.

Regardless, either 1 of 2 things will happen:

(1) Stars ends shortstacking, but creates shallow tables for you guys to have a circle jerk. Would that make you happy? On a table where the max buyin is 20BB, you guys can minraise and shove until your finger falls off.... Would this be acceptable to you.

(2) Stars won't do anything. I'm leaning towards this. Every site is taking to ban shortstacking. If Stars keeps them, they will have a monopoly. LOL. If that happens though, not many people will stay on the site; at least full stackers. Those that do can't really complain anymore and I hope you shortstackers spread like swine flu.

Anything in between is unacceptable and is just a cop out.

LOL, and what you do isn't unethical. STFU. You're pathetic. Yes, it is within the rules of online poker to shortstack, but calling it ethical is kind of embarrassing.

Fair enough, then I'll just say change it now and we can be done with it.

Lol, yeah really.

I don't know about 64s, but I'd say it's pretty obvious that leaving the table every time you win a hand is most definitely not how poker is supposed to be played. That goes for full stacks too.

big bet poker is big bet poker. betting rounds on the flop, turn and river, as well as preflop. the same holds true for limit, although it's limited in the size of the bet. I hope you understand the differences between these games, but as your comment clearly states, you don't. Two completely different games games, two completely different structures. Your logic is flawed, DUCY?

SSers love their irony don't they. So NOW all of a sudden a SSer cares about things being fundamentally unfair and unethical.... but only when it hurts *you*. Of course it's not fundamentally unfair that SSers have an unfair edge they exploit in 20-100bb games vs deepstacks.... of course it's not unethical that they rathole hundreds of tables to maintain and exploit this edge.

I understand your point, but it still falls under a game update that is ending an exploit. Some updates will be much bigger, and affect more people obviously, but it doesn't mean they should all wait till Jan 1st. Your argument would have more merit if you weren't lobbying to keep an unfair exploit. These kinds of updates should be done ASAP and definetely not at the end of the year.

Your above argument also assumes there won't be any shallow or CAP game alternatives for you to play. If shallow or CAP games are added, then Stars would be keeping your 'very common' method of achieving SNE.

I'm not acting like I'm "morally superior" I'm just saying there's a reason 20bb poker isn't allowed live, or on full tilt, and that same reason is why stars is "looking into it". I'd prolly put my roll on the min buyin changing.