Yeah, that's kind of ridiculous. He says somewhere that it's "easy" to withdraw the 10k after it's transferred to you, which is a straight out lie imo.

Jorj, thanks for clearing that up. Didn't remember that you had gone to them directly for permission before doing it.

Myturn and suspicious-cat, yes. I think them admitting to sending each other pretty big (if the other guy's blog is correct) is pretty bad. Clearly not "aghressive play" but very obviously gaming the system. Very much appears as though chiten was shopping the chips by losing hnds intentionally on the tables. They might have used the transfer feature also. Not sure. But there willingness to team up here should certainly cause concern regarding their play onvolving other opponents if they really are at the same stakes and tables a lot.

it's ****ed up that they give him a chance over more deserving, way better players, and his thanks is "ok let's scam money off my employer"

http://friendlyp.ning.com/profiles/b...bruary-results

You guys sure make a big deal out of nothing. He was cautioned already, why is the thread still going on?

He should be punished not just cautioned.

Maso - I agree that some are definitely making a bigger deal out of this than it probably warrants. But the apparent chip-dumping that he was involved with on this is certainly worse than the non-stop flipaments that jorj was doing 2 years ago.

1. They weren't agreeing to ship the difference to each other or try to chip-dump at the tables (to my knowledge anyway).
2. We presume that jorj and others didn't like to Stars when they got pre-approved for this whereas it appears possible that chiren possibly did....especially neglecting to mention the "I'll ship the EV to you by intentionally losing a few of the hands" part.

It's not good. But it's not the most terrible thing in the world either. I do think it's reasonable for people to expect more from the pokerstars pros though.

My contribution is more to point out indeed how much he was possibly making from this. It's possibly more than just a few pennies and it didn't seem like anyone else was seeing that. And to also point out that pretty much any of the Stars Pros could do this type of thing on the regular tables right now if they are truly making over 100% in all their perks (combining pro perks with SNE stuff). As far as we have seen, none of the other pros thought it appropriate to do anything remotely like this because it's really obvious that it's taking advantage of the system in an inappropriate way.

From the blog post:

This is from his blog post:



Not really sure what to make of this at all. It seems slimy when you first see it but it really isn't that different than any of the biggest name live pros sharing stakes in each other (or online stakes either I think).

I'm inclined to think this is the type of thing that probably isn't THAT completely terrible.

I once again try to do some math, please correct me where I'm wrong:

Rake vs. Rakeback:
Assuming both are SNE and ignoring any extra perks that Chiren might have due to his Team Pro status:

Rake was maxed at 50 Eurocent which means they share 12.5/2 = 6.25 VPP
SNE turns those into 6.25*5 = 31.25 FPP
31.25 FPP equals (assuming $4k bonus): 0.5$

0.5 Eurocent are currently 0.6448$ so each hand they 'play' each of them looses 0.0724 Cent in Rake to Pokerstars. Once again, this assumes that Chiren doesn't have higher rakeback than regular SNEs.

Milestones/SNE rewards:
Every hand they play each of them "earns" 3.125 VPP's. When you reach 1m VPP you get (according to fpppro) $30,800 in Milestones and $30,400+$5,200 in Tournament Tickets, so
1m VPP = $66,400 => 3.125 VPP = $0.2075

Every hand they play each of them earns a share of their SNE rewards worth $0.2075.

$0.2075 - $0.0724 = $0.1351 Profit each hand.

Hands/hour:

According to the screenshot it seems like they "played" about 850 hands/hour. Lets assume that they only reach the desired outcome in less than 90% of hands they play due to 3rd persons sitting at the table, missclick, folding hands for plausible deniability (lol), ... Pretending 750 Hands/h are only between 3j55 and Chiren with 0.5 Euro rake:

This would be an hourly VPP-rate of ~2435 per head.
3J55s hourly (SNE Rewards-Rake) is ~$101, Chirens probably higher due to extra Team Pro perks ($100k bonus to clear?, higher rakeback?).

Stressfree VPP-boost for $100/h or am I wrong somewhere/missing something?

That looks correct to me. You did it kind of a bit more complicated I think though. You don't have to look at FPP value separately from the milestone/tourney package value.

Just take the total value and divide it out. If SN now and you make SNE then that's about $120k in value for the year. So that's $0.12 per VPP for 1M VPP's. Much easier math that way.

chiren's opponent/buddy is already an SNE and is going to make SNE again. So that's about $135k in value. Or 13.5c per VPP.

We don't know exactly the different perks that chiren gets. But it costs around $190k in MGR to get to SNE and I'm guessing chiren ends up with $200k total in value if he earns 1M VPP's this year from being a pro and the SNE stuff. So he would be earning $0.20 per VPP if that is correct.

Anyway, it's way easier to just take the total value you get at the end of the year and then divide by 1M.

If you don't consider the tourney packages to really be worth as much as cash then one can kind of round everything down and just consider each VPP to be worth $0.10. That makes it really easy for somebody going for Elite to calculate their rakeback for a day or month. Earn 3k VPP's in a day and that means you got $300 in rakeback (if you actually finish the job and make it to Elite).

Hope this helps. But you seem to have a decent handle on it already.

You are right but it's 4am, I didn't want to do any mistakes and wanted to make it really hard for the Chiren fanboys to prove me wrong

I wonder what employer would be happy to see their employee effectively steal $100/hr

I didn't rly think this was a big deal until that link surfaced, def raised my eyebrows

There is a connection btwn this guy and Chiren and if PS doesn't look into this then I am rly disappointed in them since its so blatant.

Apples and oranges iyam. Unless you believe those MTTers regularly dump to each other for fun and profit.

Towelie - I'm talking about their arrangement to share EV with each other that had nothing to do with their promo-abuse thing. Some people would think that alone is suspicious and potentially inappropriate. I'm guessing that sharing EV similar to the way they have apparently done in the past is not disallowed by the sites and that they aren't the only people that do it.

My point being that they perhaps weren't breaking any rules before the promo-abuse situation even though they obviously know each other and have an EV-sharing arrangement.

I'm not sure that is a fair statement, they didn't 'team up' on anyone in fact when someone came to table they would leave. They wanted HU, they found an 'edge' and were exploiting it, they were not cheating in any way.

While his statement was lol he really didn't owe anyone an explanation other than PS.

While I never played WOW there was nothing wrong with what he did there, he paid a monthly fee to use a service the fee he paid covers the development and availability of the game. The game has a bug, he plays the game and experiences a 'feature' that is in the game. If the game company doesn't want this then they remove the feature, he wasn't doing anything anyone else couldn't do.