Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are currently customer 1 in queue.

Hello, my name is Glenn Young. I'll be assisting you today.

Mark: Hello

Glenn Young: Hi Mark

Glenn Young: Let me check

Glenn Young: I need your account number or the correct username that one did not match

Mark:

Glenn Young: Let me check

Glenn Young: Sir Im still not finding your account

Glenn Young: Account number or email?

Mark: I am logged in right now

Mark: My user name is

Mark: Sorry My player name is

Glenn Young: Perfect thank you

Mark:

Mark: acct number

Glenn Young: What coupons are you looking for sir?

Mark: 2 $109 coupons

Glenn Young: What promotion sir, cause I dont see them in your account?

Mark: I know that's why Im writing. They were not a promotion. I won them in a real money tournament. I have been waiting for a day to use them and today is the day I was going to enter the $109 PLO but they are not in my account anymore and I didn't use them.

Mark: I know I never used them so I don't know how they got deleted

Glenn Young: Let me double check sir

Glenn Young: Sir I did not find any coupons

Mark: give me a minute my history is online I will find the dates

Glenn Young: Thanks sir

Mark: May 25 2013

Mark: April 30 2013

Mark: Those are the dates I won the coupons

Glenn Young: Let me check

Glenn Young: Im going to transfer you to an agent that can help you with the issue

Mark: ty

Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Daniel Gordon'.

Hello, my name is Daniel Gordon. I'll be assisting you today.

Mark: hello

Daniel Gordon: Hello, how are you?

Mark: a little frustrated

Mark: otherwise ok.

Mark: Did you get our chat log transferred to you?

Daniel Gordon: Please give me a moment to look into this...

Daniel Gordon: Unfortunately they have expired from your account.

Daniel Gordon: They were in your account for a very long amount time.

Mark: Im sorry I don't follow. I won these in a real money game. They had real dollar value. No promotion or contribution from carbon. How does real money expire? Especially in only 6 months?

Mark: If I deposit $109 into my account and I don't touch it for 6 months does that expire too?

Daniel Gordon: We will never be touching your real money balance.

Daniel Gordon: But all coupons have a expiration date.

Daniel Gordon: In the terms and conditions it mentions the details.

Mark: These $109 coupons came from all real money. $109 of real money was put up and that is what I won. Weather it is in the form of a coupon or cash it is still real money in my ledger. How can this be taken away from me?

Daniel Gordon: Correct, you know your are winning the coupon so you know you need to use them.

Mark: I can understand this totally if this was a freeroll but not when it was a investment on my part. This is totally wrong. I just had $218 taken from my account. These coupons represent a real amount of $109 that carbon collected and is supposed to repay when I select to play a tournament and now your telling my that Carbon is just deciding to keep my money?

Daniel Gordon: Correct, but we are mentioning in our terms and conditions that the coupons have an expiration date.

Mark: Those terms and conditions are not posted in the tournament lobby when I select to play a game

Daniel Gordon: But they are on the main site.

Daniel Gordon: We are informing you on the terms Mark.

Daniel Gordon: Unfortunately the coupons cannot be refunded.

Mark: This is really disgusting. I have played poker along time and I am accustomed to losing money but not to being swindled.

Mark: I do not need to be informed now. I have a standing rule not to play at a dishonest site so I will be deleting my account. Enjoy my stolen money.


Not sure if this was the right forum or not. This is my first time posting.

Am I right to be upset???

Carbon is beyond shady. I stopped doing business with them awhile ago for a number of reasons! I feel that you were correct in your argument, and I might be able to help you out. PM me

such a joke from carbon

Im kinda new to posting here and not sure how to PM you.

Most of the new threads I read about a site stealing money I just say to myself "man, here we go again with some lame thread."

However, if what you're saying is 100% the situation, this is completely dirty and I hope you can get enough exposure to possibly be reimbursed. At the very least, you've warned others of this situation. GL to you.

tl;dr -- but I'm assuming the coupons expired?

You won't get PM's enabled until you've been around the forums for a little while. It takes a couple of days or so.

I agree that Tickets do have a money value and should not expire however you did not read their T&Cs so it is your fault not theirs.

You need to have a certain number of posts before you can pm, I'm not sure what that number is though. I think that you are right to be upset. The Merge network (not Carbon) made the change several months ago but did a very very bad job of notifying players. The rational was that the network was trying to get people to use the coupons; but considering that a lot of players had no idea that their coupons were going to expire, it only served to take money from those players and nothing else.

How many people reread the Terms and Conditions on a regular basis? I certainly don't.

Im still having difficulty finding it in the Terms

It's theft. No doubt about it.

When they were licensed by Kahnawake you could file for a hearing to decide disputes. Players had about a 50% win rate as far as those hearings went. They are licensed by another entity now. I'm not sure how you would set up a hearing with them. But you should consider trying to set up a hearing.

100000% THIS.......

My favorite part of the chat session.

"and now your telling my that Carbon is just deciding to keep my money?

Daniel Gordon: Correct, but we are mentioning in our terms and conditions that the coupons have an expiration date"

Correct WE ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY

Here's the thread from Dec. where the new expiration rule was announced. You might want to post in there as well

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/20...-days-1282308/

Done. Thanks

Disgusting! Insta cashing out my money from Carbon.

pokermike is there anywhere decent to play, we have limited options? Lock is the new full tilt, not carbon, they at least do pay out.

It's not theft that you can't read T&C's. Sucks, sure, but it's not there fault. (Especially not Carbon's fault, Merge to a large degree, but still it's a rule, that's how it works.)

I have the T&C's posted on page 1 of this thread. I welcome you to point out the Coupon Expiration entry to me because I could not find it.

Stealing from players is not justified just by asserting some dumb rule and hiding it in the T&C.

Tickets like that -- that are cash equivalent and not awarded as any promotion, but came from players deposits only - should never be taken.

If 2 players put up $50+5 and winner gets a $100 coupon, that coupon should not expire ever.

http://www.carbonpoker.ag/about-us/t...ent-rules.html - No. 26

And I don't like the rule, but it is the rule. it's how points have a decay time. It's not theft, because it's clearly a stated rule and you knew that when you played. You can argue they should change the rule,a nd they should, but your thread title is widely inaccurate.

Regardless of it being in the T&C, it's shady. They're stealing or "expiring" money from the same people that pay their salaries, their customers.

I stopped messing with this site after it took almost a year to cash-out ~$2k, which basically only happened thanks to the Marketplace on 2+2. Carbon could give a ****.

My .2 for dealing with Carbon:
Email instead of Chat, a few people if needed.
Find someone who doesn't recite the T&C in their sleep and they might go the extra mile for you.


Also, OP I agree that his "Correct, we are taking it" was the icing on the cake. Even if it is "policy", how about a little damage control, or common courtesy for a customer? "Well, unfortunately sir, we've changed our rules regarding coupons a few months back..blah blah blah".

The amount of $ coming in from these "coupons" that people probably think are still sitting in their accounts right now is pretty sick. You'd think they'd help a few people out to keep it quiet.

Just as a heads up, Merge also has a rule that you lose all your bankroll if you don't log in for 6 months.

That's factually wrong and a lie. They take your balance from the skin and you email them (Merge) to have them send you a check for that amount. Stop trying to spread factually incorrect information.

I congratulate you on finding this. Now I ask you this... Whenever I decide to put my $1 or $10 or $500 entry into an online tournament do I first need to put aside 3 hours of research time to explore every single web page associated with the poker site to make sure I don't miss a secret rule hidden in the archives? Don't you think if the poker site is going to implement such an absurd rule they would best serve their customers by putting it in the tournament lobby. Ex.. 1st place $109 Tournament Coupon (Coupon expires 90 days after issue). 6 little words will most definitely fit in the tournament lobby wont it. Perhaps they do not want people to know of this rule. The less people that know the more money in their coffers. I'm just saying.......